Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

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olive
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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby olive » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:08 pm

anyroads wrote:The reality is...Spain can not survive / compete against Germany in the Euro. Much the same for Ireland and the rest of the PIIGS.

This is another European war, but fought on the financial front, only this time there will be no winners.
Spain and the rest will just bleed for the next 5 / 10 years until someone says "enough". Problem is these days, there are no strong leaders so things will be left to drift for years. In that time it will not get better. Jobs / property prices / standard of living, will suffer even more.

Ex pats will see a little sunshine from a weakening Euro,.

anyroads
I agree with you and have felt so for months. More austerity equals more unemployment. Growth? Can't see that coming from anywhere. Maybe a brave government would have a secret plan to leave the euro. Not very democratic but I think Spain would do well out of leaving the euro (once a few years had past to let the dust settle). Deflation would help bring none Iberian buyers back into the housing market. They could always have a push to increase tourism.

I read the other day, that Britain is the third most popular country for Spaniards to emigrate to. I can understand that. Irritatingly the article didn't say what number 1 or 2 were on the list. I would guess the USA was one. Mexico perhaps? Anyone know? I bet number 2 is NOT Argentina!

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby Lavanda » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:59 pm

Every dog has his day ... Greece, Italy, Ireland, Spain, Portugal ... the UK, the Netherlands, France, Germany ... what goes round comes round ... as you sow, so you reap ... etc. Relax. Grow vegetables. Go for a walk. It's not so bad ... yet!

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby anyroads » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:53 pm

Alas Lavanda,

There are a lot of young people in Spain (for one) who would not agree with you.

anyroads

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby Julie » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:05 pm

There are people living on the streets in thier thousands, watching some of the reports on Spanish TV is a real eye opener, and it difficult to believe it is in europe.
A couple of my friends were saying until recently, that there was no reason for people to not be able to find some type of work around this area, but recently they are saying different, as more people are struggling to make ends meet, and with summer fast approaching there will be even less work :(
No soporto ver la casa sucia, ahora mismo me levanto y apago la luz.

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby frank » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:52 pm

anyroads wrote:Alas Lavanda,

There are a lot of young people in Spain (for one) who would not agree with you.

anyroads
Agree, there are lots of well informed people that are writing again today that Spain is in deep mierda. It's all very well to say "Every dog has his day ... Greece, Italy, Ireland, Spain, Portugal", all these were recipients of huge amounts of EU cash, Spain has been receiving it for around 25 years, but rather than invest it wisely or put a bit away for a rainy day, they wasted huge sums on vanity projects. Brand new airports with no aircraft or passengers, roads going nowhere or hardly anyone using them, millions of empty houses, the AVE losing a fortune etc. (can you believe they are already talking about the future building of another 4 million homes! http://tiny.cc/sv4wcw)
Well, now the tap has almost been turned off and all the aforementioned countries are in trouble. The money is drying up and they don't seem to have a feasible Plan B, fasten your seatbelts, we're in for a bumpy ride.
Regards, Frank

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby annfoto » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:38 pm

An awful lot of families are now relying on grandparents to provide food and shelter. In the light of this I find the Junta's latest scaremongering even more distasteful.
http://www.diariosur.es/v/20120417/mala ... 20417.html
Basically Seprona are combing the fincas and huertas of the Guadelhorce looking for pensioner's engaged in commercial farming, two came snooping past our place today as we were going out.
I was told by an old neighbor on Sunday that the tomato plants I was planting out were illegal this year as you are only allowed 5 plants for personal use. This is of course nonsense, but many old people, who work their huertas every weekend to help feed their family and maybe sell some produce to pay for the water and fertilizer, are illiterate and rely on heresay.
The rules have now been altered so that people can work their fincas as long as the food they produce is for their immediate family or they earn no more than minimum wage.
A lot are confused and scared. There was no need for that :thumbdown:
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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby katy » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:57 pm

If you look at it from the positive (and selfish) angle it is good news for the ex-pats with a UK income. Prices are falling (so I am told), building is almost at a standstill and maybe the service industry will learn to smile again. When we were there in December a couple of places we ate in previously didn't care if they served you or not a couple of years ago. Now it's all false smiles and bowing and scraping but they do seem to have improved on quality too.

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby frank » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:23 pm

annfoto wrote:An awful lot of families are now relying on grandparents to provide food and shelter. In the light of this I find the Junta's latest scaremongering even more distasteful.
:
I don't see it as scaremongering, it says quite clearly the majority are exempt, plus if it's for personal consumption, no problem. For those that are doing it on a commercial scale, they're the only one's that need worry. I realise it's the Spanish way, to turn a blind eye, but the arcas are empty, they understandably are keen to get people paying their dues, their taxes. Perhaps if so many were not working on the black, Spain might not be in such a parlous financial state.
Regards, Frank

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby MarkF » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:43 pm

frank wrote:The money is drying up and they don't seem to have a feasible Plan B, fasten your seatbelts, we're in for a bumpy ride.
The money dried up many years ago, what is now drying up is credit, because that is no longer seen by the banks as an asset.

I am cycling through from Bilbao to Malaga in 7 weeks and am going to take a keen interest in what is happening on my leisurely ride down.

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby frank » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:10 pm

MarkF wrote:
frank wrote:The money is drying up and they don't seem to have a feasible Plan B, fasten your seatbelts, we're in for a bumpy ride.
The money dried up many years ago, what is now drying up is credit, because that is no longer seen by the banks as an asset.
.
Spain is still a recipient of EU funds, it's no longer the largest but it certainly still receives a lot of money. It's winding down but it doesn't become a net contributor until 2014.
Regards, Frank

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby Lavanda » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:39 pm

A friend asked my OH how many potatoes he was planting this year. On being told, he said in all seriousness,"What? You must plant more than that. We have to feed the village!"

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby peteroldracer » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:57 am

MarkF wrote: I am cycling through from Bilbao to Malaga in 7 weeks .
Make sure your bike is well secured during overnight stops, as petty theft has increased dramatically, and scrap values are high enough to encourage it.
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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby Abyss_Rover » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:28 am

biribiri wrote:It certainly seems to be around here. :(
On our last walk of the day me and my faithful hound pass by 3 local bars. At 10pm this evening the total clientele between two of them numbered three, the other one was empty save the owner who was mopping the floor before closing up for the night.
Two or three years ago at 10pm all three bars would have been noisy places full of people just starting to enjoy their Saturday night out.
We are seeing very similar here in Mallorca. Many locals and expats alike, say that they meet with friends at their houses because of the no smoking laws. I guess, like the UK, this law will force many people to either do this or stand / sit outside, as many UK drinking establishments now have outside areas for smoking but you often find them full of smokers and NON smokers, while the inside is empty.

I guess this will improve when the weather does and I guess the tourists wont mind at all (unless the screen showing the football is inside).

What with the all inclusive strangling local bars, restaurants etc. With the smoking laws keeping locals and expats away, during the colder months. Surely many will be forced to close and the local tax income can only suffer for that.

Maybe if the Spanish government can claw back some of the black money, it will help in the short term but I feel that the real black money disappeared long ago and with local businesses failing, the prospects for the future are dim, in my personal opinion.

As I said, this is what I have seen and heard, in Mallorca. This is why we are looking to move somewhere that has more of a year long trade, not mainly the tourist season.

I hope that I am wrong but as it's been said before, world war 3 is a financial war and although I don't think anyone will win this one, many will suffer because of it.
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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby MarkF » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:50 am

frank wrote: Spain is still a recipient of EU funds, it's no longer the largest but it certainly still receives a lot of money. It's winding down but it doesn't become a net contributor until 2014.
This was not the money that I was alluding to though, Spain can't put up future EU payments as collateral for any EU bailout!
peteroldracer wrote:
MarkF wrote: I am cycling through from Bilbao to Malaga in 7 weeks .
Make sure your bike is well secured during overnight stops, as petty theft has increased dramatically, and scrap values are high enough to encourage it.
Yes, we don't intend to stay anywhere that won't allow the bikes to sleep with us. Fortunately, with the 2 of us, shopping, banking etc will be safe.

Spain needs a change in attitude to employment and business, it should be easier to hire & fire and easier to start up a business (and fail), self employment costs are ridiculous and remove much of the incentive for most small/sole traders. Who'd vote for that lot though?

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby gus-lopez » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:37 am

The problem is the speculators. They've got bored elsewhere& have turned their attention to Spain , once again !
The Spanish have done all that has been asked of them by Implementing swinging austerity cuts. It's extremely difficult to have growth when asked to implement austerity !
They have increased exports & reduced imports & now have a net income.Inflation is low, lower than the Uk. Yes there's the highest unemployment in the EU but that's what austerity brings. The ten year bond interest rate is being forced up, by the lenders & speculators, but as one economist pointed out at the weekend ; Why would you invest in German ten year bonds at 1,75% when any sane person can work out that over this period german wage rises & inflation will leave you with less than your original investment ? Another professor from the Madrid institute pointed out on Bloomberg yesterday that the Spanish have accepted the cuts , done everything asked of them & are still getting a kicking ! Why ? + their fierce pride will not allow them to seek help( even if it was necessary) or ask for a bailout!
This is something that is giving me extreme cause for concern at the moment which it shouldn't be.
If you allow speculators ( Gamblers in essence ) to run the markets I've always said that it's a recipe for disaster.
The EC Bank won't lend to eu countries at low rates but will lend to any eu bank at 1% ! So you've got banks borrowing at 1% & buying government bonds at 6% !!!!!!!!!!! It's just encouraging the speculators to put pressure on to up the bond rates.
When they talk of 'bailouts' it's worth bearing in mind that Cataluña alone has a gdp equivalent to that of Austria ! It's never going to happen.
Abyss_Rover wrote:
We are seeing very similar here in Mallorca. Many locals and expats alike, say that they meet with friends at their houses because of the no smoking laws. I guess, like the UK, this law will force many people to either do this or stand / sit outside, as many UK drinking establishments now have outside areas for smoking but you often find them full of smokers and NON smokers, while the inside is empty.

I guess this will improve when the weather does and I guess the tourists wont mind at all (unless the screen showing the football is inside).

What with the all inclusive strangling local bars, restaurants etc. With the smoking laws keeping locals and expats away, during the colder months. Surely many will be forced to close and the local tax income can only suffer for that.

Maybe if the Spanish government can claw back some of the black money, it will help in the short term but I feel that the real black money disappeared long ago and with local businesses failing, the prospects for the future are dim, in my personal opinion.

As I said, this is what I have seen and heard, in Mallorca. This is why we are looking to move somewhere that has more of a year long trade, not mainly the tourist season.

I hope that I am wrong but as it's been said before, world war 3 is a financial war and although I don't think anyone will win this one, many will suffer because of it.
Around here all the bars put in outside covered areas complete with electrics, lighting tv's, space heaters ,etc. Any that didn't won't get the trade.The awning makers, electricians, aerial installers ,etc; earnt a fortune.

The 'black economy' is thriving here ! My neighbour's son has more work than he ever had in the good times & there's plenty of his relatives & friends the same. There's still 51 billion in 500€ notes 'under the bed' in Spain & that's without the other denominations !
My neighbour managed to make 100k appear to build a 3 storey apartment on to the back of the house ,without ever going near a bank. :lol:
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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby olive » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:27 pm

gus-lopez wrote:The problem is the speculators. They've got bored elsewhere& have turned their attention to Spain , once again !
The Spanish have done all that has been asked of them by Implementing swinging austerity cuts. It's extremely difficult to have growth when asked to implement austerity !
They have increased exports & reduced imports & now have a net income.Inflation is low, lower than the Uk. Yes there's the highest unemployment in the EU but that's what austerity brings. The ten year bond interest rate is being forced up, by the lenders & speculators, but as one economist pointed out at the weekend ; Why would you invest in German ten year bonds at 1,75% when any sane person can work out that over this period german wage rises & inflation will leave you with less than your original investment ? Another professor from the Madrid institute pointed out on Bloomberg yesterday that the Spanish have accepted the cuts , done everything asked of them & are still getting a kicking ! Why ? + their fierce pride will not allow them to seek help( even if it was necessary) or ask for a bailout!
This is something that is giving me extreme cause for concern at the moment which it shouldn't be.
If you allow speculators ( Gamblers in essence ) to run the markets I've always said that it's a recipe for disaster.
The EC Bank won't lend to eu countries at low rates but will lend to any eu bank at 1% ! So you've got banks borrowing at 1% & buying government bonds at 6% !!!!!!!!!!! It's just encouraging the speculators to put pressure on to up the bond rates.
When they talk of 'bailouts' it's worth bearing in mind that Cataluña alone has a gdp equivalent to that of Austria ! It's never going to happen.
Abyss_Rover wrote:
We are seeing very similar here in Mallorca. Many locals and expats alike, say that they meet with friends at their houses because of the no smoking laws. I guess, like the UK, this law will force many people to either do this or stand / sit outside, as many UK drinking establishments now have outside areas for smoking but you often find them full of smokers and NON smokers, while the inside is empty.

I guess this will improve when the weather does and I guess the tourists wont mind at all (unless the screen showing the football is inside).

What with the all inclusive strangling local bars, restaurants etc. With the smoking laws keeping locals and expats away, during the colder months. Surely many will be forced to close and the local tax income can only suffer for that.

Maybe if the Spanish government can claw back some of the black money, it will help in the short term but I feel that the real black money disappeared long ago and with local businesses failing, the prospects for the future are dim, in my personal opinion.

As I said, this is what I have seen and heard, in Mallorca. This is why we are looking to move somewhere that has more of a year long trade, not mainly the tourist season.

I hope that I am wrong but as it's been said before, world war 3 is a financial war and although I don't think anyone will win this one, many will suffer because of it.
Around here all the bars put in outside covered areas complete with electrics, lighting tv's, space heaters ,etc. Any that didn't won't get the trade.The awning makers, electricians, aerial installers ,etc; earnt a fortune.

The 'black economy' is thriving here ! My neighbour's son has more work than he ever had in the good times & there's plenty of his relatives & friends the same. There's still 51 billion in 500€ notes 'under the bed' in Spain & that's without the other denominations !
My neighbour managed to make 100k appear to build a 3 storey apartment on to the back of the house ,without ever going near a bank. :lol:
The implementation of austerity (and remember that much of the suggestions haven't actually been implemented
yet) didn't cause the incredibly high unemployment that Spain has. We got to where were are now as a result of the housing bubble bursting. WHEN the austerity is implemented (driven through - much nicer words) then we can expect unemplomentment to rise and by much more than the government forecasts. I would say to 30% within two years.

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby frank » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:37 pm

olive wrote: The implementation of austerity (and remember that much of the suggestions haven't actually been implemented
yet) didn't cause the incredibly high unemployment that Spain has. We got to where were are now as a result of the housing bubble bursting. WHEN the austerity is implemented (driven through - much nicer words) then we can expect unemplomentment to rise and by much more than the government forecasts. I would say to 30% within two years.
Agree, the measures haven't even started taking effect, there'll be some squealing when they do. Disagree with Gus, my reading of the last few months productions figures reveal production is dropping at an even faster rate, and orders are fewer. I read yesterday about the monies the regions owe in unpaid bills, we all knew most were broke, but there are 4 million unpaid invoices, in 14 Spanish regions, to the tune of €17.3 BILLION. :(
http://www.expansion.com/2012/04/17/eco ... 80252.html
Not sure where it will all end, Spain hasn't a hope in hell of meeting it's targets, the IBEX 35 has dropped alarmingly lately, I can't see where the money is coming from to pay all the bills.I don't think the fat lady will be singing for some time yet.
Last edited by frank on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards, Frank

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby masterob » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:57 pm

Ordered something high value in Malaga last Monday, item has to come from Madrid but promised within the week. Heard nothing so contacted supplier today to be told a holiday in Madrid today as well as tomorrow so cannot expect delivery before the end of the week! They wonder why Spain is in the economic mire! Clearly extra holidays of greater importance than customer service! :shock:

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby frank » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:01 pm

masterob wrote:Ordered something high value in Malaga last Monday, item has to come from Madrid but promised within the week. Heard nothing so contacted supplier today to be told a holiday in Madrid today as well as tomorrow so cannot expect delivery before the end of the week! They wonder why Spain is in the economic mire! Clearly extra holidays of greater importance than customer service! :shock:
It's el puente de mayo, everything stops for a week! :lol: Bit like August, Spain shuts down.
Regards, Frank

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Re: Is the "crisis" getting worse where you live?

Postby masterob » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:28 pm

Indeed. Hard to feel much sympathy for the Country and its inhabitants when they seem incapable of understanding that endless days off are not conducive to remaining in profitable business! I feel sorry for the Germans who will be expected to bail them out when the **** hits the fan!


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