New health rules

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Jool
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New health rules

Postby Jool » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:59 pm

From Typically Spanish

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/pu ... 4464.shtml

El Cid
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Re: New health rules

Postby El Cid » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:22 pm

It's a very fragmented article and doesn't really cover the main points.

Under existing EU law nation states can insist on immigrants (including those from the EU) having sufficient income not to be a potential burden on the state and to have sufficient medical insurance (or provision under EU reciprocal arrangements for pensioners) to cover any health problems they may have.

Spain chose not to implement that option some years ago. It was in force 10 years ago but was changed and is no longer required. The government is now talking about changing it and requiring all immigrants (EU included) to meet these provisions.

They are entirely within their rights, within existing EU law, to do this. It is unlikely to affect people who have the right of permanent residency as a result of applying for the green A4 form that has been in existence for some time.

New expats or those who have not bothered to register on the register of foreigners and are not UK pensioners with the relevant E121/S1 form could have some serious problems if they wish to remain in Spain.

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katy
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Re: New health rules

Postby katy » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:29 pm

Fiddling while Rome burns again, really can see this helping to pay off the national debt :crazy:

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Re: New health rules

Postby El Cid » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:43 pm

katy wrote:Fiddling while Rome burns again, really can see this helping to pay off the national debt :crazy:
If you believe the claim that foreign "Health Tourists" as they are variously described, are milking the state health system then anything they do to reduce that must help.

The "legal" pensioners in Spain are now going to have to pay something towards their prescription costs (which they don't in the UK) so it is only fair that the fraudsters and spongers who have been illegally claiming on the Spanish health system are finally kicked into touch.

The sooner that they kick out the thousands of foreign tax evaders that have got away with it for years the better I will be pleased.

I won't even mention the UK plated car problem (but if I did I would crush the lot of them - owners included!)

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Re: New health rules

Postby katy » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:05 pm

Yes but how does anyone defraud the Spanish health service :? If people illegaly uses the European health card it is no loss to Spain as the UK are billed for this. I know that it is virtually impossible to get any care on the CDS without being in the system or having the health card. I have actually seen moroccans turned away.

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Re: New health rules

Postby Jool » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:27 pm

Katy - they defraud the health service by adding family members to their household as dependants simply so that they can get free health care.............

Its worrying as OH´s residence card has expired and I never had one but I am a fiscal resident - personally I think they need to insist everyone files a tax return even if negative in Spain then they know who is really here.......

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Re: New health rules

Postby country boy » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:29 am

El Cid wrote:
The "legal" pensioners in Spain are now going to have to pay something towards their prescription costs (which they don't in the UK) so it is only fair that the fraudsters and spongers who have been illegally claiming on the Spanish health system are finally kicked into touch.

The sooner that they kick out the thousands of foreign tax evaders that have got away with it for years the better I will be pleased.

I won't even mention the UK plated car problem (but if I did I would crush the lot of them - owners included!)

Sid
:thumbup:

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Re: New health rules

Postby Lavanda » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:37 am

The sooner Spain and EVERY EU country sorts themselves out the better it will be for EVERY law-abiding, tax-paying, form-filling, registered person in EVERY EU country. Just imagine the zillions the UK could save (but then waste on some other crack-pot idea, no doubt).

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Re: New health rules

Postby Campo Steve » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:14 am

katy wrote:Fiddling while Rome burns again, really can see this helping to pay off the national debt
Every little helps. Got to start somewhere.
Yes but how does anyone defraud the Spanish health service If people illegaly uses the European health card it is no loss to Spain as the UK are billed for this.
At the moment those people are defrauding the UK.

Maybe it is about time all of the European countries got together and worked out who is living where. At least then I wouldn't mind so much paying for my private health insurance whilst listening to those that openly boast about fiddling the system.
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Re: New health rules

Postby olive » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:41 pm

Interesting article in Elpais (in English)

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/04/23/ine ... 68975.html

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Re: New health rules

Postby gus-lopez » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:27 pm

" to continue to have health rights in Spain, you need to have a valid residencia (issued, in the case of EU citizens, first for five years, and can then be renewed for a further 10 year period) and be on the padrón of your village, and registered with your GP."


Read more http://www.davidjackson.info/2012/so-wi ... stered.htm

Explanation of a "extranjero " here.
http://www.murciatoday.com/changes-to-s ... 420-a.html
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Re: New health rules

Postby El Cid » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:37 pm

gus-lopez wrote:" to continue to have health rights in Spain, you need to have a valid residencia (issued, in the case of EU citizens, first for five years, and can then be renewed for a further 10 year period) and be on the padrón of your village, and registered with your GP."
Two interesting articles.

I would take issue with the comments about renewal of the registration certificate. There does not appear to be any legal requirement to renew it unless your personal circumstances change. If you didn't have a previous residencia card when you applied you only get a temporary right ( unspecified) to reside but once you have been here for 5 years you gain a permanent right of residency.

If you have the non permanent certificate then you can "upgrade" it after 5 years to the permanent certificate which again appears to be valid indefinitely. The only difference is in the wording on the document - apart from that it is identical.

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Re: New health rules

Postby gus-lopez » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:16 am

El Cid wrote:
gus-lopez wrote:" to continue to have health rights in Spain, you need to have a valid residencia (issued, in the case of EU citizens, first for five years, and can then be renewed for a further 10 year period) and be on the padrón of your village, and registered with your GP."
Two interesting articles.

I would take issue with the comments about renewal of the registration certificate. There does not appear to be any legal requirement to renew it unless your personal circumstances change. If you didn't have a previous residencia card when you applied you only get a temporary right ( unspecified) to reside but once you have been here for 5 years you gain a permanent right of residency.

If you have the non permanent certificate then you can "upgrade" it after 5 years to the permanent certificate which again appears to be valid indefinitely. The only difference is in the wording on the document - apart from that it is identical.

Sid
Yes, I' ve got to agree with you there.
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jayce
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Re: New health rules

Postby jayce » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:16 am

Just read in The Daily Express that the UK is told to allow every European person access to the NHS, how does Spain get away with making things more difficult, even for EU Citizens.

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Re: New health rules

Postby El Cid » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:31 am

jayce wrote:Just read in The Daily Express that the UK is told to allow every European person access to the NHS, how does Spain get away with making things more difficult, even for EU Citizens.
There is something very odd about that article.

It says:- The Eurocrats ordered the British Government to scrap current rules stating that jobless EU citizens cannot stay in the country for more than three months unless they have their own health insurance.
“This breaches EU law,” said a statement from the commission.


The UK rules about having health insurance if you want to stay more than 3 months are exactly the rules that Spain is going to introduce.

It doesn't breach EU law - it is a very specific part of EU law!

Article 7
Right of residence for more than three months
1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for
a period of longer than three months if they:
(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member State; or
(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on
the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and
have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State


It looks like a case of the UK Eurosceptic press massaging the words to suit their own agenda!

It will be interesting to see how the Daily Mail reports it!

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jayce
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Re: New health rules

Postby jayce » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:40 am

I was thinking more of the British pensioner that sells up in the UK moves here, becomes resident and does all the correct paperwork, did I not read that they would need to have held a Residencia for 3 months before becoming entitled to Spanish health care. They cannot use the EHIC card because this is cancelled as soon as they transfer their pension overseas. For many being unable to access healthcare could be serious, even for 3 months.

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Re: New health rules

Postby El Cid » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:34 pm

jayce wrote:I was thinking more of the British pensioner that sells up in the UK moves here, becomes resident and does all the correct paperwork, did I not read that they would need to have held a Residencia for 3 months before becoming entitled to Spanish health care. They cannot use the EHIC card because this is cancelled as soon as they transfer their pension overseas. For many being unable to access healthcare could be serious, even for 3 months.

British state pensioners are covered in Spain using the E121/S1 form which is issued when they get their pension. They have to sign on the register of foreigners after 3 months like anyone else but they can do it all on day one if they want to and get full health cover from day 1. They will be issued with a UK EHIC card for use in the UK or any other EU country (except Spain as they are covered there in full).

Only one spouse needs to be a pensioner, the other becomes a dependent with full cover.

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jayce
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Re: New health rules

Postby jayce » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:16 pm

Thanks for that...makes sense now.

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Re: New health rules

Postby bobdun » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:37 pm

But what about the early retire'e who moves over to occupy their home in Spain full time prior to reaching UK state retirement age, my understanding currently is they are also provided an S1 for health cover up to 2 years depending upon NI contributions after which they have to take medical insurance until reaching UK State retirement age, will this still apply under these new rules?

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Re: New health rules

Postby Campo Steve » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:00 pm

bobdun wrote:But what about the early retire'e who moves over to occupy their home in Spain full time prior to reaching UK state retirement age, my understanding currently is they are also provided an S1 for health cover up to 2 years depending upon NI contributions after which they have to take medical insurance until reaching UK State retirement age, will this still apply under these new rules?
No change as far as I can see, unfortunately (from a selfish point of view).
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