Huge pall of smoke

[anis]

Charred black mountains stretch for miles in the interior

[anis]

Minimum four road lane - 3/4 pylon wide firebreaks - clean and ready for business

[oliveview01]

Ojen must be really counting it´s blessings. Good photo´s if a chard mountainside can be good!

[wildside]

In anis second photo you can clearly see the terraces (horizontal lines) that were created by machines and men before the forest was originally planted... A man made forest with little or no maintenance throughout the last hundred years.... result... uncontrollable fire.....

The firebreak in the third picture should be a minimum of 100 metres wide...(its not) and If you look closely towards the top you can even see small trees in the middle of it and scrub....

[ajtg1952]

The firebreak in the third picture should be a minimum of 100 metres wide...(its not) and If you look closely towards the top you can even see small trees in the middle of it and scrub....

The fire break should be typically 2.5 times the expected flame height or about 10m. 10m - 20m is the normal, or it was when I worked for the Forestry Commission.

[wildside]

And flame height recorded in this fire exceeded 40 metres.... (as released in the first report from infoca)...40 x 2.5 is 100... Mediterranean forest burns differently due to the ambient temperature as opposed to the north where its cooler... All the firebreaks i created in north wales were 50 metres minimum..... 20 metres is nothing when faced with this flame heat...

[country boy]

The next time I come across a 100 metre wide fire break will be the first; but I am only 69 years old and have lived in the countryside all my life, there's still time, hopefully!

[oliveview01]

but I am only 69 years old and have lived in the countryside all my life, there's still time, hopefully!

I had you about 45 at the very most in my mind Country Boy:shock:

[Lavanda]

Go to the Sierra de Gata, Country Boy. After the fire in Las Hurdes a few years ago the already substantial firebreaks were doubled AND they appear every so many 100m. It ruins 'the view' completely but it seems to be effective — although there was a small fire near Valverde del Fresno last week it was quickly put out. I do think widlside has a point. We all love the campo — that's why we (well, some of us) live there but it's fraught with problems during any summer never mind an exceptionally dry one. I've never seen so many Seprona patrols in our area — some actually out of their Pathfinders and on mountain bikes.

PS Yes Oliveview. I thought he was a 'boy' as his posts are always neat.

[country boy]

Kissy Kissy!! I don't feel 69...just look it !

I was talking Forestry (Pine especially), not wild forest.

[Paula]

Elviria is badly burned, basically from the toll road up, infact it is worse lower than higher, and Calahonda too. Terrible to see. I've seen lots of bad fires here but this was the first time I was actually frightened and packed a bag!

There is to be a concert at Puente Romano on Monday evening to raise money for victims of the fire. Lots of detail on facebook, tickets go on sale tomorrow at Iceland stores.

[gavilan]

I understood that the Montes de Malaga were planted with pine trees to prevent the flooding of Malaga city but I do not know why other places like the Sierra Tejeda and Sierra Almijara near where I live were planted with similar trees. Nor do I know what grew on those mountain sides before that re-afforestation programme and whether fire incidents were more or less common before then. Does wildside know?

[costakid]

Light rain forecast for Friday and heavy rain on Saturday according to the BBC so that should dampen things down including all the ash that blowing around.

[wildside]

Gavilan, in the dim and distant past yes, the Iberian peninsular had huge swathes of cork forest, pinsapos and Mediterranean stone pines amongst other species.... Mixed in with this were also huge area of grazed areas. buffalo, deer and an enormous population of rabbits (rabbits evolved in Iberia) wandered at will and were hunted by our early ancestors.... This was the time when the forest was truly wild and of course parts of these forests burned from time to time but that is a natural part of forest ecosystem

In more recent times Romans, Moors etc, a policy of slash and burn was implemented... forests were removed for 2 main reasons.. Firstly the best way to dislodge indigenous people is to remove their habitat... These invaders feared the forests that were full of strange and dangerous creatures.. Also the enemies were easier to hunt down and kill if they didn't have forest cover. The second reason for slash and burn as you probably know is to sculpt the earth for a different reason.. In the case the planting of almond, grape and transforming the land into an enormous fruit and vegetable garden... The vineyards of Andalucia must have been an incredible sight....

In the 1400's the Christians come and in a few short years the Moors are removed... The gardeners, the ones who new about how to work the garden of Andalucia were killed or fled and immigrants from the North were imported to occupy the newly won territory... They knew nothing of soil tilling or vineyard care, nothing of how to work the land as many were city peasants forcibly transported by order of Ferdinand and Isabella.... very soon much of the 800 years of work by the moors was destroyed...

Trees were used for lots of things, how many 100 year old oak trees does it take to make a Spanish galleon? Thousand of oaks were felled and used for ship building and the boats sunk out off the coast at Trafalgar... A huge forest of cork oaks in the Ronda mountains (12,000 hectares) felled for the bark as it was used in the tanin process of curing leather, huge swathes of what was left of Andalucian forest was cut and burned for charcoal, lime production , house building etc....

Sorry I rambled on a bit there but to answer Gavilans question... Basically, up until a relatively short time ago the mountains and valleys were pretty bare and there was no "forest" cover like there is today... A very large part of the "forests" of andalucia are man made, they are not "natural" parks....

[gavilan]

Thank you wildside for a fascinating and informative response ...
and you wrote: 'In the case the planting of almond, grape and transforming the land into an enormous fruit and vegetable garden... The vineyards of Andalucia must have been an incredible sight' ... yes, they must have been an incredible sight ... and tragic that so much knowledge and skill were lost.

[IreneD]

Wildside, that's fascinating - makes me want to know more about the history of Andalucia, of which I am woefully ignorant. Thank you

[wildside]

For the history of wildlife and how Spain developed since the dawn of time you can do no better than Teresa Farinos "Wild Spain"...... I see on amazon that its a bit pricy at 50 euros.... I have a copy here for 30 plus post and packaging at 12 euros.. If anyone wants it

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wild-Spain-Anim ... 493&sr=1-1

[frank]

For the history of wildlife and how Spain developed since the dawn of time you can do no better than Teresa Farinos "Wild Spain"...... I see on amazon that its a bit pricy at 50 euros.... I have a copy here for 30 plus post and packaging at 12 euros.. If anyone wants it

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wild-Spain-Anim ... 493&sr=1-1

On the same link, there is a second hand one for around £13!

[wildside]

Yes Frank but if you try to order it you get either a message that they don't ship to Spain or that shipping is unavailable....

On amazon.es its even more expensive... I'm writing to the author now to see if she'll sell some copies direct...

http://www.amazon.es/Wild-Spain-Animals ... 792&sr=1-7

[barry]

On the same link, there is a second hand one for around £13!

Not anymore!