Huge pall of smoke

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frank
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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby frank » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:10 am

katy wrote:Wildside a comment here in Sur is saying very much the same as you posted earlier.
Indeed, they are even more forceful than Wildside, they certainly don't pull any punches. But isn't that often the way, some people on these type of forums seem to take offence if anyone dares to write anything that may be construed as negative about Spain, but the Spanish themselves have no problem in telling it like it is.
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Wicksey
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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby Wicksey » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:38 am

oliveview01 wrote:Even though fires are banned we have still seen bonfires in the campo in the last month or so, even the man who owns the olive grove next to our house burnt the olive prunnings a couple of weeks ago. His olive grove is kept very clean, as are the others on the other side of him.
I read somewhere that there are big fines for having ´dirty´land or piles of rubbish that could catch fire.
We need a bonfire here, we have a pile of dead plants, no good for the compost, we pile them up and the chickens spread them about :lolno: I think we will have to bag the stuff up and bin it instead.
Yes it's hard for the locals not to have a bonfire and some of our neighbours are experts in it :crazy: . After the dry winter there were a couple of fires that went out of control in the spring very close to our house - there always seems to be the risk of starting a wildfire, not just in the summer. We certainly would never burn our garden rubbish but have been told at the Nerja tip that they don't take it. We don't know what to do with it as we have quite a pile of palm leaves and bougainvillae cuttings. Presumably that's why everybody else around us just burns it?

Of course next weekend is Candalaria when everybody comes into the campo to have bonfires and let off fireworks .... madness at this time of year, and I always dread it.
katy wrote: I bought 2 large fireproof bank boxes. One for important documents and the other for old photos.
Where did you get the boxes from Katy as it's something I have considered doing?

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anis
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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby anis » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:00 pm

Frank wrote - But isn't that often the way, some people on these type of forums seem to take offence if anyone dares to write anything that may be construed as negative about Spain

Frank, I don't like your comment and I can only assume it is pointed at me since I don't see anyone else commenting on land management except for you, Katy and Wildside. :thumbdown:

I can only report what I have seen ie. the precautions taken for land management in my area very near to where the fire began - not the port of Malaga .
I am here , living next to the wretched thing , not over there in the UK and I can only speak my mind and tell you the precautions I have seen put in place and generally well maintained annually.
I am not sticking up for them, just telling the truth about land management here the way I have seen it unroll in the past year and the measure the men round here have taken to prevent fire. Which may also explain why Alhaurin de La Torre has never had a massive fire whilst I have been here, thank God.

An arsonist most likely caused this - there were quite a few small fires - about three - near there in the past month alone - near Miramonte, much nearer to Coin town than this one, but of course you and the UK press would not have known about these. The brigades got there quickly and put them out. I wo nder how well other places around the world would have managed against a persistent arsonist such as this/ these ?

I cannot speak for areas Katy/ Wildside mention, I can only tell you what I have seen with my own eyes .

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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby tjtops » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:08 pm

I can only tell you what I have seen with my own eyes
Well said. :thumbup: Just a shame this isn't always the way...and that's how unfounded rumours start....and spread almost as quickly as the fire itself......
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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby Devils Advocate » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:20 pm

Don't think Frank was having a go at you Anis. For what it's worth I agree with you. In and around the National Park in the Competa,Canillas area...........backing right out to Maroma the fire breaks are wide,clean and always tended to...........watched the guys this year through a scope doing just this, top blokes.

I was also on the next big Hill next to where the big fire was above Competa 6 maybe 7 years back........horrific, we witnessed the start mid afternoon and stayed up through the night with the guests who were with us..............staggering battle between man and fire. Embers which must have been 20 feet in size were being sucked up in the firestorm and hurled across a so far unbreached fire break.........it started a fire on the other side then, the firebreaks never had a chance if they were 200 metres wide :( .............I believe human negligance with flame started that one too.........not poor firebreaks and poor management.

I just feel it's too early to start pointing fingers and playing the blame game whilst the embers are still burning. And yes, I also like people who "pull no punches" and "say it as it is".............just a shame they don't do it before the horse bolts.
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.

katy
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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby katy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:33 pm

I did say early on that I thought the fire-breaks were very well cared for in our area. All our urbanisations garden rubbish was collected and taken to the recycling area in marbella. However, the Spanish poster, and Wildside do have a point, I think everyone must have seen piles of rubbish dumped in the campo etc. I don't think anyone on here has started any "rumours" :roll: I just thought people would like to know the latest, seeing as some on here don't even know the opening hours of Mercadona :lol:

According to the Spanish press today it is thought that the fire was caused by a camp-fire/BBQ. In an interview with Julio Iglesia who lived close to me. He said he has brought land care up with the authorities several times, seems he has lost 200 hectres.

Just to add, as DA says, firebreaks probably would have made no difference. I spoke to a friend yesterday in el Rosario and she said that the flames shot right across their road and it is 2 car width.
Last edited by katy on Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby katy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:39 pm

Hi Wicksy, I got the bank boxes from one of those online office supply places, can't remember it's name. Still use them now, they are a bit heavy :)

frank
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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby frank » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:21 pm

anis wrote:Frank wrote - But isn't that often the way, some people on these type of forums seem to take offence if anyone dares to write anything that may be construed as negative about Spain

Frank, I don't like your comment and I can only assume it is pointed at me since I don't see anyone else commenting on land management except for you, Katy and Wildside. :thumbdown:
You can assume it was pointed at you if you want, it was simply a reference to that fact that Wildside felt he might cause some controversy by expressing his opinion. ie that large areas are neglected.
I would like to make some comments about this fire from a biologists point of view... (Mine)... I suppose they may cause some controversy....
Your comments are valid, you can tell us what is happening around you, however Wildside, and the article Katy linked to are adamant lots of other areas have been badly neglected. The following statement from the article is quite clear where it puts lots of the blame.
Los bosques y parques forestales están descuidados y abandonados a su suerte.
Regards, Frank

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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby Bongtrees » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:32 pm

From my own first hand experience of the wildfires this year there appears to be no National plan re fire prevention and firebreaks as there are none where I live.

The fire spread from tree top to tree top and not along the ground so why oh why are firebreaks not compulsory throughout Spain? I have no doubt it would have saved our area.

Also (and again where I live so dont know if is different in different departments) why is the removal of pine trees in private gardens and land subject to getting permission and in my area is always denied! These damned trees are a nightmare, they are a fire hazard and the mess they create throughout the year is unbearably hard work to control.

In my case only the pine trees caught fire, the native oaks, and others did not.

Get rid of the pines and plant fleshy leaved trees in their place.............. maybe Spain could get an EU grant.
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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby Lavanda » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:38 pm

Some time ago Extremadura went through a mania of planting eucalyptus trees. These foreign imports proved disastrous in many ways, including fire, and are now, finally, on the verge of being totally phased out. :D It was a crazy idea as our indigenous Pyrenean Oaks and Holm Oaks are made for the conditions of the place. Eucalyptus trees are not. :?

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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby katy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:46 pm

For anyone who is affected in the Elviria (Marbella) area, there will be an office open tomorrow in the tenencia de alcaldía de Las Chapas for requests for assistance or you can e-mail [email protected]

60 houses have been damaged, some of them structurally.

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knowal
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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby knowal » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:47 pm

oliveview01 wrote:This is a reply I got on another forum:

According to fb this was a private cat refuge in Mijas with 70 cats----Aristocat.Sadly, not all the cats got out--some were burnt and others survived.They are looking for foster homes for the survivors- the refuge was burnt to the ground-photos on fb. Photos of her cats too.
There is a support group being set up for Chantal and her cats on fb. and people are doing their best for her and her cats.

So it isn´t a scam, wish it was, then it would mean animals were not killed :(
Why do you "back up" one unreliable report, with another unreliable source?

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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby oliveview01 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:09 am

And why are you always trying to make trouble White Horse? Of course, you must be correct all the time!

Is everything reported on A.com always reliable? I doubt it!

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IreneD
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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby IreneD » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:50 pm

The Belgian woman Chantelle who runs that cattery is genuine and a member of PAD The sosandalucia.com group are helping her and the facebook group for the cattery is

http://www.facebook.com/events/15894854 ... l_activity

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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby oliveview01 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:34 pm

Thanks Irene, I was going to hunt out the link to show White Horse. :thumbup:

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IreneD
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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby IreneD » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:57 pm

No problem, Oliveview01 - and here's some more good news about that particular refuge, from facebook.

This has been posted on SOS Volunteers wall........UPDATE - Sunday 2nd September 17.30.
Following direct contact with Aristochats I can report that the situation is NOT as bad as some earlier posts had stated.
Aristochats have confirmed that the refuge has NOT been completely destroyed and
many more cats have survived than was originally posted. There have been some fatalities and about 12 cats are being treated for burns and smoke inhalation.
A Spanish military unit from Cadiz are going in tomorrow to clean up - don't know how this came about but it is brilliant news.

The refuge have said that they are able to care for the injured animals themselves.
Thank you to all those who offered to foster care or clean. In light of the of the offer of military assistance it is likely that these offers will not be taken up.
The electricity supply is down but will hopefully be reconnected tomorrow.
There is some damage to the refuge and contributions towards repairs will be gratefully received.
Chantal from Aristochats is overwhelmed by the amount of support people are showing. THANK YOU EVERYONE.

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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby oliveview01 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:13 pm

Brilliant news Irene, thanks for the update. I saw a photo of some of the damage, it didn´t look good.

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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby tt » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:03 pm

No doubt White Horse will be galloping along in a minute to say sorry for getting it wrong.

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anis
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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby anis » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:06 pm

Nimrod, Coin and her neighbourhood are completely untouched, as is Monda and Alhaurin. We knew they would be, the fire did not start there but at Barranco Blanco which is further along and more into the hinterland and as I said before and the wind was not blowing that way but down towards the coast.

I have just come back from a 1 hr tour of the damage. It is difficult to see some of it because it took place in the interior nd there are no roads in, no access.
We went down along the coast road as far as Marbella, Katy. There is no damage to any of the coastal resorts and the fire stopped above Rosario - not too much burning there.
As you drive up the A335 into the interior up the main road to Coin, you can start to see the damage and smell the burn.
Ojen was the nearest town to it as far as we could see and it stops short above it - I have a photo which I will try to post but it is difficult to take anything from that road. They were lucky.
There are whole mountain sides burned - charred black all the way down to Rosario.

I also have a photo of the firebreaks at Alhaurin el Grande and they are very wide and many of them - three or four mega pylons wide, at least a 4 LANE ROAD width and they are very well maintained. I saw the road part where the fire had jumped over in to a lower ravine. It was narrow there, a 2 lane width. It would be difficult to make the road wider there - it is a difficult pass under a mountain side.

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Re: Huge pall of smoke

Postby anis » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:23 pm

This is how near the fire reached Ojen, a beautiful white village near the coast .Image


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