Disturbing?

[rafiki]

Am I being paranoiac or do others find http://tinyurl.com/9das3ac to be rather disturbing?

[olive]

You may well be concerned. Europe is going through some tough times with governments, acting under the direction of unelected masters in Brussels, imposing tough austerity measures to ensure the wheels of capitalism continue turning and generating money for the banks.

It wouldn't do for the media to be able to freely report what actually is happening on the streets and perhaps showing the police in a bad light. Far better to trust in our police forces. Better still stay at home and protest silently.

[TerryC]

It seems to me that the police in the UK think they are now in a police state as well as the Spanish police. Developments over the last few years are extremely disturbing. It will never be proved but this all seems to be coming from the EU, they want to control every aspect of our lives. Keep the rich rich and the rest of us poor. RIP democracy.

[rafiki]

Well, TerryC, I'm more interested at the moment in the way things are going in Spain. Perhaps this is a not-so-thin end of the wedge designed to assist the government to control public order with a heavy hand. In other words they are expecting big trouble and think they are going to have to get very tough and don't want the rest of the world looking in. Of course pictures always get out in these circumstances.

[markwilding]

As usual Terry thinks all of this should be blamed on the EU and the ECHR. However, they might actually be the ones who will be able to declare it illegal.

There is a difference,on this point, between the UK police and their continental cousins. In London it's always been a common sight to see tourist having their photos taken with tourist but in the rest of Europe it isn't possible.

It could be argued that the police have the right to not permit anybody take this type of snap but as soon as questionable tactics are used, then they should lose this right,

Maybe a further law should be introduced where the police should film their own operations to enable clarity during any following investigation.

[Devils Advocate]

Anybody else think the article mutes a very good idea re. stopping protesters from covering their faces?

The gang of scrawny weeds hurlings rocks at the coppers during the London student riots may have thought twice about it had mumsie been able to recognise them on the TV.

[rafiki]

Yes, a very good idea. However, as the police here cover their number should they also be allowed to cover their face too?

[Devils Advocate]

Hi Brian. My feelings are that all measures should be considered to combat this growing trend of numpties being able to take to the streets in a mob and wreak havoc in city centres................causing the tax payers multi millions of euros/£s each time they do it. The vast majority of them would not say boo to a mouse, however put a university scarf around their face and they become Rambo!!!............zero tollerance will sort them out.........whatever it takes.

It won't affect you and I Brian, I won't be standing at the front of a mob hurling bottles at the police and then running away, neither will you. I have no qualms about the police covering their numbers and faces if up against this type of being.............fight fire with fire and hit them harder than they hit you. The pacifist route failed in London twice last year with the softly,softly aproach.............as soon as heads started being cracked the riots mysteriously finished.

[rafiki]

I think it's deeper than that in this case. We are not talking about the 'reclaim the streets' tw**ts or the clueless anarchists here. More likely 'we want jobs', we don't want to starve', 'we have nowhere to live' type riots - people who would not normally take to the streets but feel it is their only option. We have seen some of that already. Add to that the row over Catalan secession...

[Devils Advocate]

I do take your point Brian.............and although I have no figures to back it up, my hunch is that for every "sincere" demonstrator there a 5 others simply spoiling for a fight and rock hurling session...........no matter what the cause or the reason for the demo is . I don't think even the much maligned Guardia would steam in with covered faces if a placard holding bunch of people walked peacefully through a cities streets..............but after what happened in Madrid I for one can't blame them having a rethink if the warriors start wanting to take a pop.

[carrowcrin]

I think it is only the start of it and the young people also need to have hope for the future.
My generation got fee education, if we made an efford got decent jobs and some of us got fat pensions and were able to buy houses in nice sunny places.
We seem to be now in an era of presidential style government and the only sign of democracry is the day we vote every 5 years.
I doubt if the police will be able to this as CCTV cameras are very much the norm now and it would be difficult for them to say how benefical these are and then try to ban the use of cameras where police are concerned.

[rafiki]

No doubt, DA, that there are those that go along for the ride to see what trouble they can make but I am still disturbed that the government feel that their handling of any public order situation should not be open to scrutiny.

[olive]

I think it is only the start of it and the young people also need to have hope for the future.
My generation got fee education, if we made an efford got decent jobs and some of us got fat pensions and were able to buy houses in nice sunny places.
We seem to be now in an era of presidential style government and the only sign of democracry is the day we vote every 5 years.
I doubt if the police will be able to this as CCTV cameras are very much the norm now and it would be difficult for them to say how benefical these are and then try to ban the use of cameras where police are concerned.

Spot on except with "fiscal union" or banking union" the government budgets will be determined by Brussels, sorry Germany and the Troika will visit regularly to make sure that is what is happening. Europe is a stones throw from becoming a united Communist state run by unelected leaders.

I read that the police here have ordered a large consignment of rubber bullets too. Quantity discount or expecting trouble.

[gus-lopez]

It won't affect you and I Brian, I won't be standing at the front of a mob hurling bottles at the police and then running away, neither will you. I have no qualms about the police covering their numbers and faces if up against this type of being.............fight fire with fire and hit them harder than they hit you.

Unfortunately that's the problem , apathy. If you have nothing to hide then why cover the numbers/faces up? You're just encouraging the scum , of both sides !
The reason I left the Uk was that it was becoming a police state & instead of punishing the criminal classes it was easier to pick on the law-abiding.

I do take your point Brian.............and although I have no figures to back it up, my hunch is that for every "sincere" demonstrator there a 5 others simply spoiling for a fight and rock hurling session...........no matter what the cause or the reason for the demo is . I don't think even the much maligned Guardia would steam in with covered faces if a placard holding bunch of people walked peacefully through a cities streets..............but after what happened in Madrid I for one can't blame them having a rethink if the warriors start wanting to take a pop.

For every pacifist demonstrator there's 99 watching , me included, who'd like to machine gun the whole lot; millions of them . 15 to 20 million needed culling in the UK back in the 70's , it's far more now.

Back to the original post, it will only encourage more filming , recording, Etc; if they go down that route. I've always recorded/filmed everything whenever I've thought it needed ,going back 40 years & definitely anything to do with occasionally being stopped by the police. When you've seen at 1st hand the antics they get up to , & have the photographic evidence to back it up,( some of which I found recently going back to the late 70's ) you wouldn't trust most of them to lie in bed straight !
Remember they've already crept this lot in !

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... EU-us.html

Mad Max here we come !

[katy]

Back to the UK I see

Perfectly happy with spanish and UK police. Both have been polite and helpful to me. Unless you have spent some time in some African states then you don't know what a police state is

[rafiki]

That was then. This is what the 'top cop' is proposing now. Oh, and yes, I have.

[katy]

Wasn't refering to you Rafiki, your post is about Spain.

For whats it's worth I agree with it...desperate times, desperate measures.Photos can be staged anyway. Not every picture tells the correct story!

[rafiki]

You mean an elected government should be able to act with impunity with no record of their actions allowed?

[Devils Advocate]

It's a faff about nothing really........as an earlier poster said, what about the thousands of security cameras placed in city centres where these events usually happen? Also everyone is now equpped with a camera on their phone which will out perform a still or video camera of 20 years ago, whilst being much easier to conceal and use....the idea of "no pics" is impossible in practice. Times have changed.............20 years ago there was no footage of these "protests" apart from a couple of main news stations shakey shots.................maybe the protesters are more boisterous now beacause they know they'll be filmed...........hence the masks? If somebody hurls a rock at another person from 6 feet I maintain they deserve what they get..........and yes I would like to see snatch squads dealing with mask wearers.

[gus-lopez]

" ..and yes I would like to see snatch squads dealing with mask wearers. "
Equal for both sides I take it ?