Are you thinking of selling up !

[Mowser]

We've no intentions of selling as it was never an "investment", it was a hobby/pastime call it what you will,

A bit like buying fancy cars. You can buy a split new car for £40,000 and as soon as you drive it out the garage it's worth £25,000. No-one thinks about this "loss". If it's what you want, you do it.

[Devils Advocate]

Thanks Dave, and all the very best to you for 2013.

Free at Last.......you are correct about properties selling, ok not at the dizzy prices vaunted back in 2007 but they're selling in our neck of the woods, and more than just the odd one or two as well........and people are picking up some proper bargains. Wish we were looking for a place now as opposed to 2002.

[frank]

I also agree with your rental comments.................If a couple have the cash to buy a property over there whether it be like us as a holiday home, or to live there full time I can't get my head around comments from people who say "don't buy,rent".......why?...it's pouring money down the pit IMHO.

I think the normal advice is to rent initially, 6-12 months maybe, make sure Spain is everything you expected. If it is, then maybe buy a place, if it isn't, throw them back the key and walk away. To me, today more so than ever, that makes sense. Lots of people find it's not for them, or they like it but not in the place they are living, but they are stuck there, they can't sell. Agree with you about realistic pricing, but some bought on a budget, stretched themselves,(silly, I know) and now find themselves in negative equity, they can't drop the price that much. It's grim for some, and it's not going to get better anytime soon.

[Devils Advocate]

Hi Frank, yes I've seen the advice advising to rent at first, I've also seen many a post advising to rent permanantly............in truth, both go against the grain for me.

However ALL people are different and you go with what you are comfy with, no harm in that. I get told off on a regular basis for being impulsive. As long as I can afford it, and I want it then it's usually bought with no faffing around.......if I can't afford it I don't even look..what's the point?

That goes for houses,cars boats, shirts,Chinese takeaways the lot...........I don't do the shop to shop trawl when I'm buying a telly or hifi, I pick the shop that has it and buy it. When I sold cars for a living I could never understand people coming in for a test drive, loving the car then not buy..........that is manic to my mind. If I single out a car to buy the only way I'll come home without a deal is if it's a complete misadvertised shed.........I'm like a dog with 2 willies when I'm about to make a purchase, caution goes out of the window

Same with Spain, went there for a week, loved the area and bought a house, bloody glad we did too. I sometime think "diving in" has more benefits than doing "meaningfull" research.......at the end of the day it's YOURSELF that is the catalyst that decides if you enjoy life or not...........you can make it happen without taking advice from people who may not even want you to succeed in the first place.

At the moment, with some of the terrific bargains to be had out there, I feel if you've got the money disposable you can't go wrong.............and renting would just be a money waster as well as a decision wobbler

[katy]

I would advise anyone moving out to rent first as we moved 4 times to find the right place and I thought I knew everything about the Costa! However, I am a bit like Lady Muck (OMG ) Living in a place is different to staying there for short periods. Many we knew who had holiday homes they loved but quickly moved on. The expense of selling and buying in Spain is pretty much like buying a car Wouldn't have done me much good as I can adore a house for a year or two and go off it

Houses certainly aren't selling in Marbella (at any price) There are thousands for sale on the CDS and even at a give away price there are many more sellers than buyers. I am still in contact with a lot of people there and some have had places on sale 3+ years. OK. some are overpriced but others aren't. When we went to Marbella last year I was fed up of OH going on about a villa that had been 1.2 million and now asking 550,000 (listening to bar-room talk at the golf club ) We looked at it...dreadful. Stuck in the 70's. No CH. rubbish wiring and looked as if there had been a leak in the basement. Up-market area spoilt by an apartment block opposite! Shut him up anyway Wasn't worth 500,000

As for Scandinavians buying, well there are always some but remember they aren't big property buyers in their own countries. Agree with Mowser...depends when you bought, we were still in pesetas and although we slashed 250,000 off the price we still came out very well, a good profit. Although wish we had kept the house in Kingston, but you can't win 'em all Saying it doesn't matter is ok. but everyone likes the feelgood factor of being secure and not feel trapped.

[concorde]

I still can't get my head around the potentially huge bill some buyers of 'bargain properties' could land themselves with.

There is a thread on here about just that, house is valued at such a price, sell at a huge loss, but the new buyer is then landed with a tax bill because the house has been undervalued according to the taxman/town hall.

This is vastly different from the U.K., where you just take the loss as a seller but the new buyer gets a bargain with no comeback from anyone!
My O.H. would like to sell our holiday house and move to another one, same village but in a better location etc.
The new house is at a bargain price but obviously we'd have to take a big hit on ours as well.
I know what the previous owners of the house paid for it, then improved it, so I imagine we would end up with quite a large bill.

[gus-lopez]

Fortunately up here we still have sensible values based on what the house actually costs to build, regardless of what it's market value is.
In 2005 when they re-valued here mine actually went down ! & they reduced the % tax payable as well .

[Footprint]

This is vastly different from the U.K., where you just take the loss as a seller but the new buyer gets a bargain with no comeback from anyone!
My O.H. would like to sell our holiday house and move to another one, same village but in a better location etc.

The new house is at a bargain price but obviously we'd have to take a big hit on ours as well.
I know what the previous owners of the house paid for it, then improved it, so I imagine we would end up with quite a large bill.

Bargain? A very misused word. Properties here went through the roof - they were never worth even close to the asking prices hiked up by greedy agents, sellers, banks, town halls............and the list goes on.

[frank]

Hi Frank, yes I've seen the advice advising to rent at first, I've also seen many a post advising to rent permanantly............in truth, both go against the grain for me.

Yes, I get your point, DA, however I think we've been here before, you'd have had 'er indoors with you I'd imagine, so she would have input a touch of financial sanity to your impetuosity!!! Plus you are talking of a whole different ball game, you were buying a holiday home, something you'd use a few weeks a year, something if the worst came to the worst you could put it down to experience and the loss wouldn't really affect you too much, you still had your main home intact in UK. I'm talking of people that have sold up at home in order to fund a new property in Spain and a completely different lifestyle, for a lot of them there is no coming back. I think it's a completely different commitment to live there or to buy a holiday home there. You're in the great position to be able to afford to buy a holiday home without selling up at home, I'm talking of the one's that make a permanent move, burn their boats at home, go out after being seduced by a few TV shows, a few weeks holidays in the sun etc. I bet there are loads that wish they had done a bit more homework, that have ended up regretting the move.

[Devils Advocate]

Quite poignant and a bit of a coincidence there Frank in what you said towards the end of your post.

Only yesterday the OH mentioned that she wouldn't be surprised if some time in the not too distant future, one of these Law "factories" will embark on a test case against one of these shows........especially when the PPI debacle finaly dries up and work becomes thin on the ground. It makes you wince seeing Amanda Lamb only a few years back telling people they have to buy NOW or risk losing the best investment they could ever make..........the programmes seemed to highlight that point more than what we bought the place for........enjoyment

In this "sue the plums off them" society that's grown over the last few years, I wouldn't be surprised if she were right..............It's always someone else's fault nowadays isn't it?

[BENIDORM]

First of all , can I say that not everyone is unhappy about living in Spain, I know many people who have good lives here, and yes many are struggling financially, but will survive, I'm sure.

I personally moved to Spain long before the TV shows and didn't have the luxury of internet, mobile phones etc., and yes it was quite a struggle , but we survived and made a success of our business etc.

This thread seems to be dominated by people who have never actually lived 'full-time' in Spain, and although they maybe knowledgeable about Spain in theory, I have to say that it is quite different to actually living here.
And yes I can see that some people haven't succeeded in achieving there goals, but at least they had the 'guts' to try, and will without doubt benefit in the future from their experiences.

My wife and I have been planning to move to France , now that we are 'retired', mainly because we 'fancy' a change, but to be honest I'm not really sure that it would be a good idea for us to leave Spain, we do enjoy our lives here, so who knows ?.

Anyway Good Luck to anyone who is actually moving to Spain and to those who are leaving for whatever reason.
Regards,
And May I Wish Everyone A Prosperous and Interesting New Year,
Gordon.

[frank]

First of all , can I say that not everyone is unhappy about living in Spain, I know many people who have good lives here, and yes many are struggling financially, but will survive, I'm sure.

I don't think anyone has said that every one is unhappy, or even suggested anything like it, we know of friends that seem blissfully happy there after a long association with Spain, and there are lots here that have no regrets whatsoever. But the figures for returning people, not just from Spain, would indicate that for many people it simply didn't work out. On this forum alone, quite a few of the old contributors have thrown in the towel and returned home, with some even now regretting doing that!

[frank]

.It's always someone else's fault nowadays isn't it?

Alas, it is! Nobody seems to want to take responsibility for their own actions, as you say, it's always someone's fault. Mind you, I think a lot of this claim culture is as a result of legal firms touting for business, ambulance chasers etc! There's no way I have ppi claim, but texts keep trying to convince me otherwise, they're a bl00dy nuisance.

[Wicksey]

My wife and I have been planning to move to France , now that we are 'retired', mainly because we 'fancy' a change, but to be honest I'm not really sure that it would be a good idea for us to leave Spain, we do enjoy our lives here, so who knows ?. Gordon.

I can relate to a lot of the comments on this thread as our first house here was purchased in 1996 as a holiday home and we may have still been there but the area around us changed so much in the boom after we moved here that we hated it and had to get out. Things do change - sometime it's you and sometimes it's the things that go on around you. At least we sold in the rising market.

We went to France and again were lucky to have bought in the booming years and sold before the bubble burst. I think we were very fortunate as if we'd bought as the market was falling we may have been stuck there still trying to sell the house. You could always try renting for a while in France Gordon . It was only after living in SW France for a whole year that we found the summers too hot and humid, the winters utterly freezing, it was generally more expensive than Spain and a few other things beside .

On our return to Spain in 2007 we sat it out in a rental house until we were sure we wanted our permanent home to be here, waited for the prices to fall then bought again more recently. I have to admit I was very nervous about buying here again, but we wanted our own place and currently have no plans to move on.

I agree that if you've never lived in Spain before it is wise to just rent to start particularly if you have to invest have all your money into a Spanish property that could be very difficult to sell. Most of our friends from when we first moved here in 2000 have returned to the UK, or are talking about going back. The reasons are various such as ill health, losing their partner, no work/income, missing their family or returning for the sake of their children's education/future prospects.

[Devils Advocate]

Yep, France does seem very appealing.............just searching on the internet there does seem to be some super places for sale at very good prices in stunning areas..................and the icing on the cake is not wasting 6 hours of your life Checking in,hanging around and then waiting for your bags from ZB654.

I'd be driving every time as a few of my mates do to their places in Northern-ish France. OK the weather is not Andalucian........but I could live with that.

Having said all that I know it won't happen, so browsing on the web is as far as I'll take it

[Mowser]

DA ... just don't buy on a flood plain.

[Wicksey]

Yep, France does seem very appealing.............just searching on the internet there does seem to be some super places for sale at very good prices in stunning areas..

Yes I must admit the houses are lovely. I do wish that we could have had our huge old French farmhouse here in Spain! The countryside too is very pretty, especially if you miss the British landscape.

Being SAD sufferers though, the brightness of the winter skies and the current wonderful warm weather we are having here is something that we find we cannot easily give up

DA ... just don't buy on a flood plain.

and don't buy near a river in arable farming areas as they pump water all night long to irrigate the fields using the oldest and noisiest diesel pumps you could imagine (placed well away from their farmhouse of course, but within earshot of the unfortunate neighbours).

[scampicat]

I still can't get my head around the potentially huge bill some buyers of 'bargain properties' could land themselves with.

There is a thread on here about just that, house is valued at such a price, sell at a huge loss, but the new buyer is then landed with a tax bill because the house has been undervalued according to the taxman/town hall.

This is vastly different from the U.K., where you just take the loss as a seller but the new buyer gets a bargain with no comeback from anyone!
My O.H. would like to sell our holiday house and move to another one, same village but in a better location etc.
The new house is at a bargain price but obviously we'd have to take a big hit on ours as well.
I know what the previous owners of the house paid for it, then improved it, so I imagine we would end up with quite a large bill.

Our lawyer advised us of the least we could sell our house at without having this happening. (something to do with the catastral value, I believe). We did actually sell at more than that price, but wanted to know what was the lowest we could accept.

[El Cid]

Our lawyer advised us of the least we could sell our house at without having this happening. (something to do with the catastral value, I believe). We did actually sell at more than that price, but wanted to know what was the lowest we could accept.

Yes it based on the current Catastral value. The taxman uses this method for valuations for most tax purposes including IHT. They multiply the Catastral value by a factor that is different for every town. Typically it is about three times but it does vary a lot. In some cases it now creates a value way above the market value and in others, way below.

It's a crazy method but you are stuck with it unless you pay a lawyer and a valuer to sort it out by appealing against it.

Sid

[Julie]

To my mind a lot of the rules in Spain are crackers

Not looking to start a war, just my opinion Lol !