Cause for concern or just a rumour!

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telboy
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Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby telboy » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:23 pm

An neighbour who lives across the valley from us was passing and said to us
The Spanish government (she probably meant the local government) is trying to bring in a law to stop English (I am sure she meant Europeans) buying and running properties as holiday rentals, as it's taking much needed business away from the hotels on and around the coast


I didn't ask her where she sourced her information. I am sure if there's any truth in this is it may apply only to non-residents. I haven't seen any mention of it in the local rags.

Terry

Lavanda
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby Lavanda » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:31 pm

I think they might run into problems with the EU by not treating all EU members to equal opportunities.

However, perhaps it relates to unlicensed renting of holiday homes to families and friends and illegal cash-in-hand renting without going through the rigmarole of getting your house declared a 'Casa Rural' or 'Hotel' etc. and paying the licences to the Ayuntamiento or Junta.

That said (written) many Spanish people do exactly that — rent second homes illegally.

El Cid
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby El Cid » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:41 pm


pete_l
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby pete_l » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:14 pm

You'd think that with all the properties standing empty that renting them out to tourists would be A GOOD THING. Still, when the hotel industry has so much cash to stuff anonymously into politicians pockets, you can't really expect the government to act in the best interests of the country as a whole.

Considering that it's already illegal to:
  • Rent out an unlicensed property
  • take cash for rent and not declaring it
I can't see that any new laws regarding this will make any difference.

olive
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby olive » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:43 pm

I think it is a bit of an own goal.

I said some time ago that as building is dead in Spain that their number one asset- tourism ought to be expanded (I actually said doubled). They have the airport capacity, the weather, the history. What better way of boosting GDP than by having more tourism through well managed and promoted rooms to let, rural tourism and so on within a legal environment with tax paid on the revenue.

Think of the boost for everyone. Bars do more trade, restaurants, car hire, tourist attractions, airports etc etc. Heck people might even buy some of the empty property following their holiday experience.

Miro
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby Miro » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:38 pm

“The passing of this law could deal a death blow to a growing sector that contributes enormously to the economy,” says David Tornos, president of the tourist rental management association.

Not to mention the buy to let market. Just what an already dead property market needed. Are these brain dead morons deliberately trying to make everything worse? :twisted:
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.

frank
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby frank » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:55 pm

olive wrote:I think it is a bit of an own goal.
I said some time ago that as building is dead in Spain that their number one asset- tourism ought to be expanded (I actually said doubled). They have the airport capacity, the weather, the history. What better way of boosting GDP than by having more tourism through well managed and promoted rooms to let, rural tourism and so on within a legal environment with tax paid on the revenue.
Think of the boost for everyone. Bars do more trade, restaurants, car hire, tourist attractions, airports etc etc. Heck people might even buy some of the empty property following their holiday experience.
Sounds great in theory Olive, buy I'm guessing the vast majority of illegal lets would not pass the regions laws as regards fire escapes etc. Personally I'd rather stay in one that had been inspected, was legal and pay a bit more. And simply having more capacity is not going to guarantee the number of visitors will increase, the reason this has resurfaced yet again is because the hotels are complaining the illegals are taking "their" trade, so presumably they are far from full. I just can't see how having illegal holiday lets is going to boost tourism. :wink: Now if they all registered and paid their dues, at least that would bring in millions of much needed euros to the Spanish coffers. If you had a legal holiday let, paying all your dues, you might see the illegals a bit differently.
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

Lavanda
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby Lavanda » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:16 pm

It will be interesting to see how this works in rural areas where there are no hotels or 'legal' casa rurales. Will local mayors shut down places that bring revenue into his/her town? :?

Mike.M
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby Mike.M » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:30 am

Frank ..... agree 110%!

Legal properties and hotels pay their dues, income tax, VAT, corp tax etc. and have essential overheads e.g. commercial rubbish collection, public lability insurance, H&S conformance etc. Plus there's the internal mods .... emergency lighting, medical kit, fire extinguishers, minimum room sizes etc.

Black market operators are not paying their dues, deliver a sub standard product and are taking the food out of the mouths of honest families that contribute to society.

frank
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby frank » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:59 am

Mike.M wrote:Frank ..... agree 110%!

Legal properties and hotels pay their dues, income tax, VAT, corp tax etc. and have essential overheads e.g. commercial rubbish collection, public lability insurance, H&S conformance etc. Plus there's the internal mods .... emergency lighting, medical kit, fire extinguishers, minimum room sizes etc.

Black market operators are not paying their dues, deliver a sub standard product and are taking the food out of the mouths of honest families that contribute to society.
Yes, it's strange that people here are always moaning about Brits not complying with the rules of the country (UK cars etc), people fiddling Incapacity Benefits etc, but seem in favour of them fiddling the Spanish taxman by running unlicensed, illegal letting properties. Seems they've got into the Spanish mindset, let's do everything on the black. :lol: We have friends that do it legally, so everything is inspected, why should they pay and some Brit down the road not pay? I'm amazed people are advocating staying in properties that do not have all the necessary safety measures in place. Our friends let through several up market agency's, one of them being James Villas, and although that's nothing to do with the Spanish legal requirements, they are incredibly strict.
Edit. haven't done anything different, but the "quote" thingy seems to be working again for a while! :lol:
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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Mowser
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby Mowser » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:01 am

Good post Frank.
I also see you've got your quotes back!
Dave

frank
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby frank » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:06 am

Mowser wrote:Good post Frank.
I also see you've got your quotes back!
Temporarily! it's done this before several times, then reverts back to making me look like an internet newbie! :thumbup:
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

ashtondav
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby ashtondav » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:20 pm

To forbid all apartment and villa rentals would be a nonsense even Spanish bureaucrats will recognise.

I would imagine that all rentals will have to have some sort of licence. Personally when i started renting our apartment and went to the town hall they just wanted me to pay AEAT for rental income, and have public liability insurance. I asked about licences but was greeted with a shrug and a shake of the head.

I already have fire extinquishers and fire blankets. Putting up a few exit signs doesn't seem onerous.

If the law is as draconian as seems likely i'll ignore it. AFAIK that's what peops in Mallorca and Canary isles do.

Chunky Monky
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby Chunky Monky » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:43 pm

frank wrote:Temporarily! it's done this before several times, then reverts back to making me look like an internet newbie! :thumbup:
I wonder if it is the browser you use. There is a problem on Ebay with the 'Saved Searches' option showing on some browsers and not on others.

Lavanda
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby Lavanda » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:05 pm

It's a mistake to think all unlicensed places do not have fire escapes, extinguishers, mod-cons, etc. or that the owners do not have insurance or pay tax. Here it is still possible to get a grant to convert an old shack into a legal casa rural. The building must be run as a casa rural for a minumum of six years. After which it can be sold and the owner keeps all the profits including the original grant - nothing is refunded. Try booking a holiday in such a place. They are always 'full' because they are for family use only. So let's see ... which scam is the best route to go down if you want to cheat the tax people?

frank
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby frank » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:20 pm

Chunky Monky wrote:
frank wrote:Temporarily! it's done this before several times, then reverts back to making me look like an internet newbie! :thumbup:
I wonder if it is the browser you use. There is a problem on Ebay with the 'Saved Searches' option showing on some browsers and not on others.
Don't think so, I have three computers on the go and although I mainly use Pale Moon, I have also posted on Chrome and Firefox and I'm pretty sure it's happened on all three. I'll take a note next time it happens and see.
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

Wellington
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby Wellington » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:09 pm

The article in this weeks Olive press stated it is only the unregistered holiday rentals that they want to stop, fully legal holiday homes are still allowed to carry on!!

Would be interesting to see how many 'Holiday Rentals' are legal !!!

markwilding
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby markwilding » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:19 pm

I always rent something when I travel down to Andalucia. I always use the websites that advertise and can't remember anytime I have done it without a contract or through an agency.

ashtondav
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby ashtondav » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:56 am

unregistered holiday rentals
Quite buy neother the tourist office, the town hall or most lawyers know this and so do not advise where to go and how to apply.

Is there a website for applying for such a licence for a holiday rental? I've not found one.

Miro
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Re: Cause for concern or just a rumour!

Postby Miro » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:37 am

And therein lies the rub. If as much time and effort was expended explaining why these kind of things are necessary and a good idea, and offering assistance and advice on how to "do the right thing", as in threatening people with fines or worse, thereby putting more people off coming here, we might be in a better state. (720 a case in point)
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

"Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative," Mordecai Siegal 1935-2010.


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