Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

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zanuck
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby zanuck » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:52 pm

Hello Beachcomber

Ref my earlier question on 10 February.

I have prepared the forms 210 for myself and my wife in respect of the period 1 Jan to 3 June 2019 and I was working through the form 210 in respect of the house that we bought in December 2019, and I have a query regarding "Supplementary Self Assessment", your notes say leave it blank, but I'm wondering if I should enter the reference number for my Form 210 in respect of the tax due based upon the house we sold in June 2019?

The form reads "If this self-assessment is supplementary to another previous payment corresponding to the same item, year or period, tick this box," and goes on "In this case, indicate below the receipt number of the previous self-assessment.".

I'd really appreciate your guidance on this one. I've previously, like most people I guess, only completed the form 210 in respect of a full year and when owning the same house for that whole year.

Very many thanks - Zanuck

Beachcomber
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:56 pm

Hello Zanuck,

This is one of the mistranslations I keep on about. This is what it says in Spanish:

Si esta autoliquidación es Complementaria de otra autoliquidación anterior correspondiente al mismo concepto, ejercicio y período, indíquelo marcando esta casilla.
Declaración complementaria
En este caso, consigne a continuación el Número de justificante de la declaración anterior.

Note that it is and not or as it states in English.

This is what it states in English on the separate accompanying instructions:

Supplementary
If this tax return supplements one previously filed, check the "Supplementary tax return" box.
Generally speaking, after having filed the tax return, if mistakes or oversights resulting in a payment than that legally due appear, or claim for a refund in excess of the correct amount are detected, a supplementary tax return must be filed to rectify the tax situation.
The supplementary tax return must include all mandatory details and any new or modified amounts together with those already correctly filed on the original form.
In the case of supplementary tax returns, box (3) must be filled in, and the receipt number of the original tax return in question must be supplied.


This translation is more or less correct and the way I read it is that you only need to fill in the Supplementary box if there was an error of calculation on the original form. It is not the same item 'concepto' because it refers to a different property.

Let me know what you think and if you disagree we can discuss it further.

zanuck
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby zanuck » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:59 pm

Good afternoon Beachcomber

Many thanks for your detailed reply and explanation; I understand now your cautionary notes within your "Form 210 instructions" document and that very small mistranslation of "and" to "or", which changes the context of this piece of text significantly.

I bow to your expertise in this area and am more than happy to accept your interpretation of the Supplementary Self Assessment" section.

I'll continue now to finish the tax returns for the 20 days in December for which my wife and I are liable, leaving that section blank.

Thanks once again - Zanuck

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby slapdash » Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:26 pm

Re: Paying Modelo 210 from a UK Bank account

Hi, this is a bump for question 1 of my post on page 71, (3rd post from the bottom, Feb 20 2020), re paying “la Renta” for Modelo 210 from a UK Bank Account. Enrique has already answered question 2. https://www.andalucia.com/forums/viewto ... 58#p397458

While waiting for some feedback, I have searched a bit further through most of the 72 pages of this thread. On page 58, Adamski, (2nd and 4th post from the top, Feb 26 2018) posted comments on his experiences with some very useful information here: https://www.andalucia.com/forums/viewto ... 40#p378755
My understanding of his posts, and deductions that I have made from them, suggests that to make a payment from a foreign bank, do the following:

Complete the Modelo 210 form using https://www2.agenciatributaria.gob.es/w ... /index.zul (The NON-digital certificate link to Modelo 210 from Beachcomber’s 2018 original instructions here: https://www.andalucia.com/forums/viewto ... 20#p388310 ). (This is my deduction. I think you have to use this link because if you use the link for Digital Certificates, you only seem able to make payments from Spanish bank accounts or credit cards and not foreign bank accounts. Incidentally, this link will still show your digital certificate if you have one)

At the bottom of the form, in "Type Of Tax Return" field use “Payment by Transfer from Abroad”, the other option is “To Deposit”, which is used when you are going to make a cash payment and take printed copies of the 210 to a bank.
type of return www2.jpg


This will then display the IBAN for making a payment to AEAT: ES87 9000 0001 2002 7000 2107
It should populate your NIE/NIF details in the Account holder field and your Surname and name.
You then need to enter your bank details. I have a EURO account at a UK bank so I would enter my IBAN (in the green highlighted field below) and my SWIFT-BIC, and I would ignore the Other Countries section for 2020 at least, though I might have to use it from 2021 after Brexit transition ends. (clarification needed here if anyone has it)

To make the actual payment from a UK Bank, Adamski suggest all you need to do is fill in the following fields on your online payment:

IBAN: ES87 9000 0001 2002 7000 2107
Payee field: enter your 13 digit Número de justificante (see *note1 below) followed by AEAT
E.g. 2509999999999AEAT

Reference Field: enter the following, without spaces in between:
Your NIE (9 chars).......: Y1234567X
Modelo/Form (3 digits): 210
Tax year (last 2 digits).: 19 ----- (for 2019 forms due by the end of 2020)
Anagrama (4 chars)....: SLAX -- see note *2
Period (2 digits)........: 0A ------(zero-A not letter O-A) see note *3
So, you will end up with 20 characters/digits, for example Y1234567X21019SLAX0A


Note *1 Número de justificante is shown on every page of your Modelo 210 Form, starts with 250
Note *2 Anagrama is shown on pages 4 & 5 of Modelo 210 - 4 characters shown to the right of the barcode. The first 3 characters should match the first 3 characters of your surname.
Note *3 assumes you are only submitting one Modelo 210 each year.

There is normally no need to send anything in the post - AEAT will receive your payment through your bank, and are able to trace the Modelo 210 form on their system through the reference numbers you have provided. If, however, AEAT do need any further information from you, this will be mentioned on page 1 of your Modelo 210 PDF.

If you need to send a copy of your completed Modelo 210 to AEAT, then use this link below to “Provide Supplementary Documentation” under Provide Documentation (you need a digital certificate to do this). Use the same link, and choose "Consultations" / "Consult filed tax returns" - to view the records of your previous 210 filings, all mine are available (again, you need a digital certificate).
https://www.agenciatributaria.gob.es/AE ... GF00.shtml

So, all above is theory. I couldn’t find any confirmation that Adamski had succeeded, plus I’m unsure if he was using a UK or Spanish Bank account.

If anyone can confirm the above is correct, or if not correct any errors or misunderstandings then I would be very grateful, as I can’t visit Spain this year to pay in cash at a bank as I have previously done.

PS Apologies for length of the post

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:08 pm

Thanks for the information. This is logical as paying using the digital certificate version of the form depends on linking to the bank account which AEAT cannot do if it is a foreign account (thank goodness!)

I cannot confirm whether or not the method you describe will work (maybe someone else can) as I cannot go through the procedure with a foreign bank account but if you have a digital certificate you should be able to check using this link:

https://www1.agenciatributaria.gob.es/e ... cn00c.html

You will be able to save a copy of your tax return which will show the CSV number in the event of any future query.

The entry appears immediately when you submit the form with a digital certificate but may take some time otherwise.

slapdash
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby slapdash » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:51 pm

Thanks for your reply Beachcomber,
I cannot confirm whether or not the method you describe will work (maybe someone else can) as I cannot go through the procedure with a foreign bank account but if you have a digital certificate you should be able to check using this link:
https://www1.agenciatributaria.gob.es/e ... cn00c.html
You will be able to save a copy of your tax return which will show the CSV number in the event of any future query.
The entry appears immediately when you submit the form with a digital certificate but may take some time otherwise.
What is the CSV number and where can I find it?

As you say, if anyone else has tried this, then feedback would be useful
In the meantime, I think I will go back to the source material that Adamski referenced, double check it again for myself, and if I feel its ok then I'll take the plunge and I will try and make a payment that way.

I'll report back what happens for other users of this forum and message thread.

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Enrique
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Enrique » Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:10 pm

Hi slapdash,
"What is the CSV number and where can I find it?".............came across this.............

"the Secure Verification Code allows for the integrity of the copy of this electronic document to be verified.

This code can be found at the bottom of the document (e.g. on certificates), or at the beginning (as is the case with tax return submission receipts)."
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby slapdash » Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:29 pm

Thanks again Enrique,

With your input I googled AEAT and there is a full description of the Electronic Filing process for the 210 here:

https://www.agenciatributaria.es/AEAT.i ... _210.shtml

The Secure Verificaion Code (SVC) is referenced at the end
The result of a correctly submitted return will always be a page replying with a text: "Your submission was successful", with an embedded PDF whose first page contains information concerning the submission (registry entry number, Secure Verification Code, receipt number, date and time of submission and details on the submitter). The following pages contain a complete copy of the return.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:27 am

The CSV is a unique code that gives immediate access to the document to which it refers by entering the number here:

https://www2.agenciatributaria.gob.es/w ... O&ORIGEN=J

If, for example, you carry the most recent copy of your non-resident tax return in your Spanish registered vehicle in order to prove that you are a non-resident and are not required to exchange your UK driving license for a Spanish one, the police or Guardia Civil can check instantly that the document is genuine by way of this number.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby kevintosh » Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:22 pm

Hi,

So the modelo 210 has thrown a new curved ball this quarter! I have done the form exactly the same as before but I'm now getting error:

"7110 - Domiciliación: - Error en el modelo domiciliado. No existe el modelo domiciliado. Registro Nº 1" or in English:

"7110 - Direct debit of the amount to deposit: - Error en el modelo domiciliado. No existe el modelo domiciliado. Record no. 1"

I think this is something to do with the option to setup a direct debit for the payment which I have had no problem with for the last year or so.

Does anyone have any experience of this error or suggestions?

we're in the UK so can't just pop into a bank to pay

thanks in advace

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby ericsbcn » Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:26 pm

I'm not sure why you're getting that error. But, instead of "Domiciliación" (direct debit), you could try the "A ingresar" (To deposit) option. In that case, the payment is immediately deducted from your bank account. Two ways to do it:

1. Make the payment via your bank's website. Some banks have the ability to make a tax payment online. When you do it, save the resulting receipt number (NRC) and then insert it into the 210 form along with the amount paid at the bottom. And then sign and send the form.

2. Use the "Realizar pago (obtener NRC) / Complete payment (NRC) button at the bottom of the 210 Form. That takes you to another page which lets you enter your bank account or credit card info, and amount. It will generate the NRC and automatically fill it in on the 210 Form. Then sign and send. One disadvantage of this is that the separate payment page does not display in English, even if you select English at the top of the page.

Good luck!
Last edited by ericsbcn on Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Enrique
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Enrique » Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:31 pm

Hi,
Probably best to get the NRC first then fire up the Form 210............I had a timeout when I did it the other way round last year as the bank procedure was a bit long time wise.
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

ericsbcn
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby ericsbcn » Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:36 pm

I always do method number 2 and have never had a problem with it timing out. But, yes, whatever works for you.

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Enrique
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Enrique » Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:47 pm

Hi,
If you're familiar with your banks procedure for paying Taxes online then 2) will work....but if it's your first time it may take longer than the Form 210 timeout.
UNIX is basically a simple operating system, but you have to be a genius to understand the simplicity.

ericsbcn
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby ericsbcn » Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:28 pm

Sorry, I may have misunderstood what you originally meant. If you are going to use your bank's website (method 1) then, yes, it makes sense to do that first and get the NRC. And then fire up the 210. But for method 2, you just enter your bank details on the AEAT page, without ever going to your bank's website. That is what I usually do.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby kevintosh » Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:21 am

Hi,
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. Unfortunately I've done the typical male thing and carried on without waiting for advice so I seem to now have a different problem...

I tried to figure out how to pay through my bank but couldn't figure it out so I perhaps foolishly submitted the 210 with the option "Recognition of debt with settlement request" thinking that perhaps the AEAT would send me something to pay against. It submitted fine.

Later that day i figured out how to pay online through my bank so I have now paid my taxes and have an NRC number.

So now I'm trying to figure out how to link that payment and NRC number to the previously submitted 210? I was tempted to sumbit a second 210 with the NRC entered but a few years ago I managed to submit two 210's for the same period and the AEAT tried to get me to pay twice.

any ideas? (and I promise to wait for advice before I mess it up anymore!)

thanks

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby ericsbcn » Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:42 pm

I have no experience with that. But I'm wondering if there were some instructions or anything on the result page after you submitted the Form 210. Looking at the instructions for another form, it seems like they may give you some kind of payment key that you can use to later make the payment.

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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby kevintosh » Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:42 am

Hi,

FYI in case it helps anyone else I found the solution to my problem - my wife spoke to the tax office (she speaks spanish luckily) and we were advised to do the following:

Click on Recaudacion on left side of main AEAT screen, then Otros, then Otros procedimientos de Recaudación, then Presentación. This takes you to a page where you can enter text to describe the issue and allowed us to upload a PDF of the receipt showing the bank payment and we also uploaded a PDF of the submitted Modelo 210 and should allow them to link the two together.

thanks

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Non-resident income tax

Postby vix2000 » Sun May 03, 2020 10:03 pm

Hi. We purchased our property on 12 August 2019, and it has 3 joint owners, all have NIE numbers. I am looking at the 210 form, and with help from a friend in Spain, and the great tutorials on here, I think I can manage the forms. There are just a couple of things I'm not sure about.

1. do we need to register as a tax payer in Spain?
2. Do we need a digital signature to pay online?
3. We have a joint Spanish Santander account, can we pay online from it?

Thank you

Beachcomber
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Re: Comments and queries re FAQ for Non-resident income tax

Postby Beachcomber » Mon May 04, 2020 6:05 am

Yes, you need to be registered with AEAT otherwise you will get an error when trying to validate the form. No, you do not necessarily need a digital signature to pay online but I don't know if there is a facility to pay remotely otherwise via Santander. It is not a bank that I have anything to do with whatsoever. Luckily I had closed my Banco Popular account prior to its take over by Santander.

Remember that, as there are three joint owners, you each pay a third of the total amount of tax and you will pay prorata to the number of days you owned the property in 2019.


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