Britain Leaving EEC - discuss!

[Mowser]

Quite right katy. The list of countries with reciprcal arrangements for health aren't just in Europe.

[Lavanda]

The original idea of a core Europe in which member states could move freely was not, in my opinion, a bad one. Then Europe expanded to include every Tom, *beep* and Harry. It needs radical and severe reform but we won't get that anymore than the referendum. I still feel that not all of the UKs problems will disappear overnight on leaving Europe. In fact, we may get a whole new set of them!

[Mowser]

Can't see a referendum coming if the latest poll is to be believed.

Labour: 36%
Tories: 29%.
Ukip 17%
LibDem: 8%

[olive]

That poll assumes all voters will toe the party line. I believe there are more Tory voters who would like to be free of the EU as it stands , for example.

It will be interesting to see how the Spring MEP elections pan out, how or if Merkel becomes a reformist. Without her changing the unelected leaders of the EU will drive forward more unification regardless of what the people might want.

My guess is :
The Eu will become a stronger institution with more centralised decision making, and less democracy.
Britain will dither along doing what suits the politicians.
There won't be an EU referendum as it doesn't suit the politicians.
Consequently there will be a rise of ultra right wing and left wing parties e.g. Golden Dawn as countries realise too late that Brussels now controls everything.

[Lavanda]

I don't disagree with that Olive, although it's a bit gloomy for me. I think there IS a growing awareness among thinking people that all is not well with the EU. The trouble is most people don't think about things like the unelected power of the EU or the creeping erosion of democracy. Why would they? The Press seems to join in with the Government in keeping the Daily Trivia machine going at the expense of 'News'. However, if a person reads the blogs or comments attached to some stories there does seem to be a ground swell of sensible and rational thought — but it is divided. The Daily Mail and The Guardian might just as well have readers coming from two different planets. That's why it's so hard to predict what would happen in any given situation about almost any and every thing.

Also there are no real leaders for us out there. Who is concerned or connected to the ordinary, normal people? No one. I include Farage in that, I'm afraid, as he comes across as a real chancer but I doubt he knows one end of practical government from the other. We need statesmen and women. We need people of quality. Either that or, one day, there will be sustained Civil Disobedience, peaceful, I hope. Working people COULD bring any government to its knees within two weeks if they were organised, unafraid and determined. For most, I fear, that's just not going to happen. They can't be bothered and any way the Rugby Six Nations has started now and, and, and ...

[El Cid]

I am told that the empadronamiento should be renewed every 6 months or so or they may bump you off it. I emphasize that is what they say here, and, as they say, other places may differ.

If you want a padron certificate for some reason that will normally only be acceptable if less than 3 months old. Irrespective of what you may have heard from the town hall, you do not need to reregister on the padron unless you are non EU or central government has specifically asked that town hall to check its entries due to insufficient controls over who is on it.

Incidentally, only full time residents of Spain are allowed to sign on, again some town halls will encourage anyone to sign on but this is against the law.

You must have your HABITUAL residence in the town, not some holiday home that you spend a few months in every year.

Sid

[Unicorn]

As always, we can only go on what we are told where we live. As it happens I live very near the town hall so it is easy to pop in and never have to wait. Maybe we have more of a transient population than non coastal or less populated areas or maybe here on the coast down this end more of an eye is kept on people, who knows? As I said, there is a drive to get more registered in the town.
Having been on this forum a while it would appear that Estepona is a bit fonder of its laws than other places. (We always remark on how many police we have particularly as there seems to be very little crime!) But having said that, it does seem to be a well run town and always clean and very safe.

[El Cid]

It's normal for town halls to encourage all and sundry to sign on the Padron for their own interests, irrespective of the law.

Just remember that if you sign on the Padron you are declaring, officially, that your habitual residence in in Spain.

That means that Hacienda, should they choose to do so, will decide that, on your own admission, that you are tax resident in Spain, with all the consequences that that will entail.

For anyone that believes the myth that Hacienda does not have access to the Padron, just remember that Hacienda has access to your electricity bill and your local Pharmacia has access to your tax records!

Sid

[Mowser]

just remember that Hacienda has access to your electricity bill and your local Pharmacia has access to your tax records!

Who needs Snowden when you have the Spanish bureaucracy.

[Lavanda]

Off topic! Off topic!

[El Cid]

Off topic! Off topic!

Yes you're right!

Guilty as charged. Unfortunately these rubbish stories about the Padron really get me going - I've never re-registered in 10 years.

Back on topic now.

Sid

[katy]

Having been on this forum a while it would appear that Estepona is a bit fonder of its laws than other places. (We always remark on how many police we have particularly as there seems to be very little crime!) But having said that, it does seem to be a well run town and always clean and very safe.

Your are joking right or you don't read local news. Which one

[Lavanda]

As for 'Britain leaving the EEC' I just can't see it. I don't think Britain is strong enough, in every way, to work outside the EU and the Commonwealth which they ditched in favour of the EU. It might make sense to leave the EU in a gut-feeling kind of way but all the UK needs to do is sort out their benefits system, scrap the Uman Rights laws, control their borders and they would be fine.

[markwilding]

scrap the Uman Rights laws, control their borders and they would be fine.

It's not going to happen.

I think everybody agrees,(including The labour government and I put my hands up, me as well) that the Labour government, got it wrong with the Poles. Previously there was always a probationary period before new members had full workers rights and that was reintroduced for the Bulgarians and the romanians.
In the 70s and 80s many young British people were working illegally in Spain. I know I did, so it's not all one way traffic. Having said that, My wife was working in London illegally while studying English in the early eighties.

[katy]

The UK cannot control it's borders whilst a member of the EU,or anything else. I am sure the UK could chug along with saving the cost of £3000 per household for the privilige of being an EU member.

[Lavanda]

That's not a bad reminder of what the EU costs us, Katy, but I'm positive that no UK Government will be handing back ANY money to any UK taxpayer any time soon. It would be nice to think that the £3000 per family would be spent on something real and long-lasting for the UK, like manufacturing and jobs, but I just don't see our politicians doing anything sensible. They would rather give the money to Overseas Aid than to UK Aid, or spend it all on Social Services or new offices for MPs. You know.

[markwilding]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ma ... arbitrary/

[Unicorn]

I have lived here for 14 years, had a place for 25. I do not understand your remark Katy. I do read the news.
But sure, let's get back on topic rather than be UKIP mouthpiece forum.

I was seriously asking what would happen regarding our residency and border control if UK voted out. And how long would it take?

[katy]

EH

Best read the thread again. Did I lead it off topic FFS.
Re. What you are asking...there has already been a long thread on this. Stop trying to moderate and do a search

[olive]

Something else to factor in is corruption. From BBC website:

The extent of corruption in Europe is "breathtaking" and it costs the EU economy about 120bn euros (£99bn) annually, the European Commission says.

EU Home Affairs Commissioner Cecilia Malmstroem will present a full report on the problem at 11:30 GMT.

Writing in Sweden's Goeteborgs-Posten daily, she said corruption was eroding trust in democracy and draining resources from the legal economy.

For the report the Commission studied corruption in all 28 EU member states.

"The extent of the problem in Europe is breathtaking, although Sweden is among the countries with the least problems," Ms Malmstroem wrote.

The Commission says it is the first time it has produced such a report. It also makes recommendations on how to tackle corruption.

Ms Malmstroem said that in some countries public procurement procedures were vulnerable to fraud, while in others party financing was the main problem, or municipal bodies were badly affected. And in some countries patients have to pay bribes in order to get adequate medical care, she wrote.

The study includes two major opinion polls, which indicated that three-quarters of EU citizens consider corruption to be widespread in their country.

Four out of 10 of the businesses surveyed described corruption as an obstacle to doing business in Europe.

In Sweden, 18% of people surveyed said they knew someone who had received a bribe, compared with a European average of 12%, Ms Malmstroem said.

Despite that finding, she said Sweden "is undoubtedly one of the countries with the least problems with corruption, and other EU countries should learn from Sweden's solutions for dealing with the problem", pointing to the role of laws on transparency and openness.


If the EU estimate is that high you can bet good money that the real figures are much much higher.