Joint bank account

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bunty
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Joint bank account

Postby bunty » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:30 am

I went to bank yesterday to open an account in my name only.Manager asked why I wanted to do this and I said I was worried about joint account being frozen on death of husband. He told me that the law had been changed two years ago and this no longer happend.
I was not aware that the law had changed so thought I would share this news!(Sorry if this has already been covered)

eazbak
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby eazbak » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:21 am

That´s interesting news , I had not heard about that change.
I´ll ask my bank to see if they give the same news.

Beachcomber
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby Beachcomber » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:49 pm

Don't believe anything anyone tells you. If he continues to refuse to open an account in your own name go to another bank and do so.

bunty
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby bunty » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:50 pm

As he was the manager of a CAJAMAR bank I will believe him for the moment. I already hold two joint accounts in that bank and I don't know why he would tell me that the law had changed if it was not true.....though I will always be pleased if someone else can confirm this...

Parilla
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby Parilla » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:26 pm

Given the choice of believing Beach or any bank manager, then Beach gets my vote every time. Your "manager" is talking through his hat.

Parilla

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rafiki
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby rafiki » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:54 pm

Parilla wrote:Given the choice of believing Beach or any bank manager, then Beach gets my vote every time. Your "manager" is talking through his hat.

Parilla
Hear hear!
Brian.

eazbak
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby eazbak » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:38 pm

I asked in my bank this morning and they tell me the account would not be frozen on the death of just one of the account holders.
They say the surviving partner has free access to 50% (if there were two names on the account) of the funds in the account even after the death of the other partner.

oliveview01
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby oliveview01 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:42 pm

Still a problem if they ´freeze´ 50% of the money! I would take it out and then tell the bank about the death. Our friend had one hell of a lot of trouble, she had to get all sorts of letters from her adult children, saying they had no claim on the bank account etc. They had to go to the embassy in London, it took months until the bank (Unicaja) was satisfied. God knows why they put her through all that, the will said what was his was hers and hers his, and after both their deaths it was their childrens. The Gestor/Abogado here had no idea why the bank wanted all the information, even he was at a loss to explain why. :shock:

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Martin Page
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby Martin Page » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:35 pm

Your Bank manager is only telling you Half of the truth ... as stated above ...

You need to insist that you have a separate single account ... or move banks - simple

eazbak
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby eazbak » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:19 pm

Presuming we do not want to be on the wrong side of the law( taking funds from someone´s account after their death without advising the bank does not sound , and indeed is not ,very legal ),then there seem to be two choices presuming neither partner has the foresight to know which partner will die first (life , and death can be full of surprises).

1) either keep all the money in one joint account and the surviving partner can legally withdraw half of the total after the death of the partner,or
2)keep half of the money in two individual accounts, and the surviving partner can legally withdraw half of the total after the death of the partner.

The only difference seems to be that nowadays with bank charges as they are two individual accounts will have twice the costs of one individual account.

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gerryh
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby gerryh » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:41 pm

eazbak wrote:Presuming we do not want to be on the wrong side of the law( taking funds from someone´s account after their death without advising the bank does not sound , and indeed is not ,very legal ),
What is not very legal about it?
If you have a joint account then either person can take out money, that is why it is called joint account.
On the subject of bank accounts being frozen after the death of one of the partners, my bank manager advised me not to tell her but to transfer all the money into a single account on the surviving partners name. She offered to set up the separate accounts there and then to save the surviving partner having to do it when the time comes.
Cheers
Gerry
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eazbak
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby eazbak » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:47 am

If you have a joint account then either person can take out money, that is why it is called joint account


Either person can take out all the money whilst the other account holder is still breathing, once the other has stopped breathing the one who is still breathing has the obligation to inform the bank of the death of the other, and can only take out 50% until the wills are sorted and presented to the bank.


The system is logical, imagine if someone´s old father has a joint account with his new young wife, and the day after the death of the father the new young wife rushes down to the bank and takes all the money out before the old man´s children get a chance to receive what may be rightfully theirs due to the will and/or law.

Death certificates have a time and date, and so do bank movements. Claiming you did not know of your partner´s death at the time of withdrawing all the funds from his the account might not hold up in a court of law if the other heirs claim what should have been rightfully theirs.

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gerryh
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby gerryh » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:06 pm

eazbak wrote:
Either person can take out all the money whilst the other account holder is still breathing, once the other has stopped breathing the one who is still breathing has the obligation to inform the bank of the death of the other, and can only take out 50% until the wills are sorted and presented to the bank.

Where is this stated?
I would be interested to see the official law relating to this.
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Gerry
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Martin Page
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby Martin Page » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:19 pm

This is my understanding to Gerry. The only way to not have your account frozen on the death of one partner ... IF you can think straight immediately after the death of a loved one ... is to do a transfer into another single account on the same day as the death.

If you do it after the date of the death certificate you are opening up a real can of worms ...

eazbak
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby eazbak » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:39 pm

There is plenty of information about this subject in internet , here for example mentions the illegality of taking out all the funds after the death of a cotitular:

el otro cotitular puede sacar (ilegalmente) los fondos y disponer de ellos.
Y repito que ilegalmente.
la ley considera que al fallecer un titular, los saldos son proporcionales a los titulares que haya.
O sea, que si hay tres titulares y fallece uno, el tercio del fallecido no se puede tocar.
Es apropiación indebida.
Los otros dos cotitulares pueden sacar sin problemas su parte del capital. Cada uno su tercio.


Here is another which clearly explains the obligations of the cotitular and the bank :

En caso de fallecimiento de un titular se debería informar a la entidad financiera de la muerte de éste. Ante tal hecho el banco debe bloquear la parte proporcional del dinero de la cuenta que corresponde al fallecido, que será lo que forme parte de la masa hereditaria (por norma general, se presupone que las cuentas son de los titulares que en ella constan a partes iguales cuando es indistinta, aunque no tiene por que ser así).
Posteriormente, para disponer de los saldos existentes deberemos entregar a la entidad el testamento, o el documento que justifique la titularidad de cada heredero y el que pruebe el pago de los impuestos que correspondan. Esto será suficiente para heredar el 50% (suponiendo 2 titulares) de los saldos como herencia.


And a death certificate not only states the date of death, but also the time,which means you may have to rush down to the bank before calling or informing anyone!

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gerryh
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby gerryh » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:05 pm

eazbak wrote:There is plenty of information about this subject in internet , here for example mentions the illegality of taking out all the funds after the death of a cotitular:
Sorry, not trying to be pedantic but can you point me to the exact law?
Information gleaned from the internet is not always accurate.
Cheers
Gerry
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katy
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby katy » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:58 am

Why have joint accounts anyway. We only Have one for bills. I was advised by a Bank Manager In my early twenties to keep everything separate and trust no one.y

eazbak
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby eazbak » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:55 am

Words of a wise lady! Maybe also words of a lady who has more money than her partner,even wiser if the bills were paid from the husband´s account and not the joint account !

Gerry, indeed information on the internet is not always accurate, so probably no use to you if I post any more information for you here on this subject on this internet forum.

Stick with the advice of your bank manager
my bank manager advised me not to tell her but to transfer all the money into a single account on the surviving partners name
doesn´t the fact that she openly tells you she does not want to be informed make you doubtful of the legality of what she is advising you to do?

Or maybe ask for an appointment with the local judge and simply ask " is it legal for me to withdraw all the funds from the bank account of a cotitular after their death without previously informing the bank of the death and without waiting for the deceased person´s assets to be divided as per their will or by law?" the judge should be able to give you a quick answer.

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Re: Joint bank account

Postby Lavanda » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:18 am

What an amazing subject. We have separate and joint accounts in the UK and in Spain. I understand that some people might get into all kinds of difficulty if they cannot access money on the death of a spouse or partner but that wouldn't be the first thing on my mind in the event of something fatal happening to my OH. As for Bunty, OF COURSE you should have a bank account in your name only and I'm with Beachy on this and Katy. I've always had my own account. Go to another bank, pronto.

eazbak
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Re: Joint bank account

Postby eazbak » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:23 am

I do not see anywhere here where Bunty has said that her bank is refusing to open account for her in her own name.


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