will you return to uk or stay in spain

[luckyjim]

The other things we looked at were being on the flat, being within walking distance to a doctors surgery and close to a chemist. Mail delivered, gas delivered. Very important as the years roll on.

[Pamela1]

The other things we looked at were being on the flat, being within walking distance to a doctors surgery and close to a chemist. Mail delivered, gas delivered. Very important as the years roll on.

I think you have a very valid point luckyjim, although our campo house which we all love is only 1.5miles outside the nearest village my mind has often raced ahead 10yrs and what is perhaps heavenly at this moment in time may not seem quite so as the years move on.I can see why people would like to be within a short walk of a suppermarket, doctors surgery etc and have the luxury of the post delivered to your door and have a refuse collection. Having lived in the countryside in the uk all of my life surrounded by a faming community some of who are 10miles outside of the nearest town or village, all have a postal service and refuge service, yet 1.5miles inland in Spain it doesn't exist...not even the bread van or gas man will go out of their way to deliver.its not as if the road to the house was a dirt track, its a tarmac road through Alamo trees unlike some of the other campo roads in Spain and some of the farm tracks here in the uk.None of this presents a problem that we cant deal with at this moment in time but when age sets in would I want to tolerate it! probably not.

[peteroldracer]

We chose to be in a hamlet, with neighbours, post a short walk away and bread and food vans, but found we were not willing to truly adopt the rural Spanish life and diet. Our nearest bar/restaurant is 2kms away, then villages at 10kms in either direction, one if which has our excellent 24/7 medical centre, but we do a weekly trip to Velez-Malaga for 'proper' shopping, the weekly papers and make a day of it with lunch out. OK while we can drive. Similarly for leisure we run a bridge club once a week and play most weeks in Nerja, and that is our social life here. Facetime keeps in touch with family back in the UK, and I have visited there twice in the ten years we have lived here.

[luckyjim]

All points are valid arguments, we lived in small villages in England, but here, at this point in our lives the town seems to be the best bet. Neither of us wanted to drive anymore. I think that when the time presents itself people have to make the decision that suits them.

[gerryh]

Selling up in the UK in order to be able to move to Spain is a big mistake.

The only way I could have afforded to move to Spain or even somewhere else in the UK was to sell my house in the UK.
Not all of us can afford to own more than one house.
Cheers
Gerry

[peteroldracer]

Same here gerry...not all of us have that option, though if I had my time over again, as I have said many times, I would never never buy a property in Spain.

[Martin Page]

My permanency in Spain depends on many factors ... particularly the Spanish verses the English Tax system. To be honest .. I'm a Tart ... I will go where ever it is to my advantage, which at the minute is the UK

[Beachcomber]

...Not all of us can afford to own more than one house...

I didn't intend for my post to sound condescending but when we first bought in 1982 it was barely a year after the attempted coup by the Guardia Civil so buying in Spain was even more of a risk then than it is now and it could have been financial suicide to sell up in the UK in order to buy here.

[markwilding]

It really depends when you came.
10 years ago renting would have seemed daft. Hindsight is a great thing.

[markwilding]

I also think that renting is not a good idea over long periods. I know people who have lived here for more than 20 years and are still renting.
That's money down the drain and while the rest of us won't have to pay a mortgages when we retire,they will still have to pay rent.

[infoseeker]

Did someone say earlier that the tax system in Spain is simpler? joking, weren't you?
A major reason for going back to the UK is the tax system and its mean, penalising IHT.
Many of these people who vehemently say they will never return to the UK , will have to eat their words, especially when they are bereaved , or become frail. Spain can be a lonely place then.
There may well be social help available, but accessing it is another thing.
Those who rely on friends and neighbours to help out forget that they too, will become frail, move away or die.
The super wealthy can book into a residential complex and have all their needs attended to :
The rest of us will probably go HOME, for, warts and all, the UK has the better care system.

[Beachcomber]

The tax system in Spain is simpler. It may not be more beneficial but it is simpler.

I think people know their own situation far better than you do.

[infoseeker]

If it's so simple, why do we get so much conflicting information from the financial gurus eg, the assets declaration for a start, even now there are arguments about what you do and don't declare.
There are pages and pages of confusing info on forums re tax
Even articles by the well known law firms contradict each other
Changes are made to the tax system, and accountants often are not aware of them or interpret them differently- go to four accountants and each will give you a different tax bill
The only time tax is simple here is when, like so many expats do, it is ignored!

[Free at Last]

Many of these people who vehemently say they will never return to the UK , will have to eat their words, especially when they are bereaved , or become frail. Spain can be a lonely place then.
There may well be social help available, but accessing it is another thing.
Those who rely on friends and neighbours to help out forget that they too, will become frail, move away or die.
.

I fail to see why anyone who would have to fund all their own care needs (whether home based care or residential), because they have savings which would put them over the limit for receiving care either free of charge or at reduced cost, would be any better off if they returned to the UK than if they stayed in Spain. One can employ carers here, either via an agency or privately, just as well as in the UK, and whilst it won't be exactly cheap, the hourly rates will be less than UK ones due to lower wage rates in Spain. If a residential care home is the only option, then again whilst they aren't cheap in Spain, they cost less than a UK one does (where those who are self-funding are often charged higher rates to make up for the shortfall care home owners incur because of caps on local authority funding for those who have their fees paid). My sister is Head Housekeeper at a residential care facility in the UK and their fees start at over 700 pounds per week now (much more for the specialist dementia unit).

[infoseeker]

The prices I've seen for care agencies seems higher than the UK, and if someone needs several hours of care daily, it would be unaffordable.
There are adverts for carers offering their services, but I would be dubious about employing people this way, having heard some real horror services about people being duped out of their money, or having stuff stolen.
Yes, it can happen in UK, but there is more opportunity for redress.
In Spain, there are fewer nursing homes, they are in their infancy, the family being the usual provider of care for the elderly for many years.Care homes and sheltered housing is the next big growth industry in Spain,with all the ageing ex pats, who don't have any family out here. It's also an opportunity for care home profiteering sharks!
I would love to see the breakdown of the £700 to see what justifies such a sum !
I shall hope to have spent my assets before the dementia sets in!

[Nimrod]

In the London area my ma in law ,who was self funding in a dementia care home ,was paying £938.00 per month.
She is now council funded,I believe the council contribute about £620 and take her pension of £183.00 per week.
It does seem that the self funding charge is higher than the council funding charge and it must be to top up the money from the council.
MIL stayed in the same room when she went from private to council.

[markwilding]

In Spain, there are fewer nursing homes, they are in their infancy, the family being the usual provider of care for the elderly

Is that true? On what do you base your information?

[ALaydee]

In the London area my ma in law ,who was self funding in a dementia care home ,was paying £938.00 per month.
She is now council funded,I believe the council contribute about £620 and take her pension of £183.00 per week.

£938 per Month seems very reasonable and good value, I've seen much higher figures being levied, especially in a dementia care home.

[Free at Last]

This will give some idea of "average" care home costs, per week, in the UK:-

http://www.payingforcare.org/care-home-fees

Paying more doesn't always guarantee the best care, either. I was in the UK last week there was a report of a retired consultant physician having been found dead on the floor between his bed and the wall (with rigor mortis having set set in before he was found) in what was described as a luxury nursing home in Cheshire, where staff were supposed to check the residents at two-hourly intervals during the night and change their sleeping position to avoid bedsores, but staff members had admitted that this wasn't done and they completed paperwork showing the checks had taken place in advance in order to "save time". Goodness knows how much the poor man or his family were paying for that kind of "care".

I'll stay here and take my chances. I know of at least 4 residential homes in and around my town (no idea of what they're like, though) so I wouldn't say they're in short supply. I sincerely hope I never end up in one, I would seriously prefer a needle in the arm to put me to sleep, permanently, to that.

[infoseeker]

Mark wilding - It's based on general knowledge!I thought most people know that it is the custom, as in many other countries, that the elderly are taken care of by their families, and that, at present , there are not as many care homes in Spain as in the UK .
I don't think it needs in depth research to come to that conclusion!