will you return to uk or stay in spain

[GerryFelch]

Being fluent (yes Felch, not just you who speaks the lingo!) I was often had to help out other British who were in some horrendous situations through no fault of their own.

BTW Felch are you any relation to the other Gerry, same area, similar photo

You should read posts properly, as Nowhere have I said I speak Spanish, let alone fluently, and NO relation, however loving your continuing use of the word "Felch".

[patricia]

Absolutely agree Miro. I have said it before, the ones who live in gated expat communities, don't speak Spanish and know little about the country they live in are generally the happiest. There are no large hospital waiting lists, not much crime, all the Spaniards love them (the only ones they meet are who they spend money with ) i agree about letting people know you speak Spanish. You get involved in lots of negative stuff and people think you have nothing better to do. It is when you are dealing with problems that you find out how anti-foreigner most Spaniards are. I got fed up of laughing off their Bolshi attitudes. Peel off the surface and there is no equal access to services for foreigners.

I could not agree more with Miro and Katy. I too am the President. Worst decision of my life. Absolutely hell trying to get things organised and you certainly know what the Spanish think of you when you are having to deal with them on a daily basis and what they think is not good. I find exactly the same people who only come here once a year if that are complaining about the decisions you make and yet they are not anywhere to be seen when things need to be sorted out. I think living in a gated community is by far the best option - if you can afford it that is - Although I enjoy speaking Spanish I would rather not speak it at all than become involved in the daily running of the Urbanization and keep getting it in the neck when you are trying to sort all the problems out which have built up over years of neglect.

Quite frankly I regret trying to get involved with the locals because they dont want you, you are a guiri and thats it sad as it is to say.

[Nimrod]

Ive got to agree with that.
We are an urbanisation of 30 houses.
Originally there was a mixture of English,Irish,Dutch,one or two Spanish but the majority was Northern europeans.They were the ones who had the money to buy.
Then when prices fell the Spanish were able to afford to buy and they are now the majority.
Our meetings are held in spanish,they spout on for hours and there's a 20 second precis if we're lucky.
We have a spanish President,the Spanish get away with the most outrageous requests,the few Northern Europeans are denied the simplest requests.
Not good for relationships but that's the way they are.

[costakid]

Katy, the 2 gerrys do look similar but i think they are different people because the original GERRY has been on here for years and speaks his mind. He doesn't need to hide behind another id.

[Lavanda]

To get back to the original post, "Will you return to uk or stay in spain" my final answer is, "Dunno. Not likely but, who knows?" I think, on balance I would prefer my bum being wiped by a West European than by an East European.

[Pamela1]

I am out of this thread now, because it's the same ole I speak Spanish and I am integrated crap that has been going on for a decade and it's boring. Pity because it started off with some good points re. Ageing in a foreign country.

Ageing in a foreign country? My MIL who is Spanish and 82 yrs old had a very bad stroke this summer, followed by a diagnosis of not expected to survive, the damage to her brain was very severe, she defied all odds and survived, then she contracted pneumonia through her feeding tube, again she survived, then another stroke followed and again she's still here," bless her". As soon as the hospital had done all they could they said that she would need 24hr nursing care, her daughter was given a week to find a nursing home who had the skills to car for her condition, she visited quite a number and was becoming distressed because she described many as not being fit to leave a dog...She finally found one half decent not the ritz by any stretch of the imagination, bare corridors, no pictures, basic items, tables, chairs and beds. The good thing is the care she receives and that is the main thing. The fees are not cheap and because she has very little all the family chip in towards her care, some can ill afford it but of course it's their mother...I think that what im trying to say is yes while there have been many horror stories about some care homes in the Uk dont think for one min its any better in Spain, you may get a shock...I'm not saying this to scare monger anyone but I think some may find this of interest.

[Unicorn]

I have to say that the game changer for me was getting access to the health service via the change of criteria and being a fiscal resident. Although not unwell in any way it was a continual worry if something had turned up,particularly paying for drugs from pharmacy with private healthcare. I have Sanitas but the backup of the state care is reassuring, and although I have not used it a great deal it seems very efficient in this area. Normally you can get an appointment on-line for the next day and recently I went and they scheduled an x-ray at the medical centre a couple of days later with a doctor's appointment immediately afterwards.
Personally I would not return to the UK as I have no particular ties there and don't think I could cope with the weather now. I lived in central London and getting a property there now would be impossible and it would be a different place when not working as opposed to when working.
I like the life here - the fresh food is great, there are still fantastic menus del dia so eating out is very attainable. Just looking at the sea and sky lifts me up for the day!
Estepona seems to be riding the crisis with a new theatre, 5 star hotel-mall , an orchid centre and various other projects. Most notably we have and almost unheard of thing - a mayor who appears uncorrupt and has what is best for Estepona at the top of his agenda. Luckily he is standing again next year.
Obviously never say never but at this point in time I would rather stay put. And yes, I keep the Spanish speaking under my hat as I do not want to trail around translating for people who think I want a 'challenge'. I lived outside UK for a chunk of my childhood and in France, Italy and Switzerland in my late teens so I probably have less emotional ties to the UK than other people. For me, not much to return to!

[Lavanda]

As the thread title referred to 'Spain' and not Andalucia I do feel it is valid to point out that not everywhere is as dreadful as Andalucia seems to be regarding health cover and old/dementia care.

When my OH had a brain aneurysm he was in the UCI in Badajoz for 18 days — brain operation, ventilator, sedation, the whole nine yards and it was distressing beyond words for me but calm for him. Each person in UCI is allowed two family members to have a free en-suite room in the family hotel in the hospital grounds to be on-hand for briefings and visits. Once the patient is out of UCI and on the two-person ward, there is a day-bed next to the patient for a family member to stay overnight with free showers and laundry facilities back at the hotel. Eventually my OH came home after a further three weeks in Badajoz and then Cáceres (which is closer to home). He recovered.

While he and I were in hospital our Spanish friends and neighbours looked after the dog and hens, watered the flowers, watered the veggie garden, lifted and stored the potatoes, picked and froze the beans and called everyday about the progress of my OH. Once we got home he had a steady stream of visitors and the help continued until we called an embarrassed halt to the daily kindnesses.

We have health cards that link to the health system computers here; GP, Farmacia and hospitals. Waiting time for x-rays and to see a specialist are usually two or three days. Health checks with blood and body fluid tests every year are mandatory with everything checked including thyroid and prostate thingys. Health care here is preventative and robust.

We have care homes for the elderly and they seem fine. There is an efficient system of cleaners, bathers and cooks go out from the Ayuntamiento each morning to 'do' for people who are in need of help. All my neighbours have help and laugh about the day I'll join them on the rota.

Of course, being alone and old is tough. Old age is not for wimps. I wouldn't like to be old and unwell in Andalucia, from what some of you write, and I can understand that the UK would look a much better place to be old. I know that. However, Andalucia is not representative of Spain. Nowhere near.

[Miro]

Fascinating post, Lavanda. Delighted that your OH made a full recovery, by the way.

It does sound like a very different place, which just goes to illustrate how different people in different places with different experiences & circumstances will naturally have very different views on the topic of this thread.

Interestingly, the couple I mentioned previously from Extremadura (Villafranca) who own an apartment in our community, love spending time here, mainly for the climate, and have integrated & made lots of local friends...however...
They constantly complain that the Andalucians are "muy informál" (in relation to work ethics and standards) and that any jobs that need to doing (for example around the community) are overcharged...and if you were to pose the same question to them, substituting "UK" for "tu tierra", there is absolutely no doubt what their answer is. In fact, after being neighbours for the last 10 years, they recently hinted that within the next 2 or 3 years, they will sell up here and "stay at home" (They're in their late 70s now). The main reason they cite is healthcare; they would have spent more time here over the last 10 years, except that they have various health issues that need regular checks, and they prefer to "go home" for anything health related.

[Miro]

Well, the language issue will soon be a redundant one. Not long before we're all wearing Babel fish in our ears as a matter of course
http://www.theverge.com/2014/12/19/7420 ... s-hands-on

[Lavanda]

Ah ... but will Babel fish be able to translate the Extremeño dialect ...

[gus-lopez]

They constantly complain that the Andalucians are "muy informál" (in relation to work ethics and standards) and that any jobs that need to doing (for example around the community) .

I was talking to a woman from Barcelona the other week. She moved here when they retired as they couldn't afford to live up there & it was far , far cheaper to live in Murcia. Her words not mine.
They'd Been living here 3 years & she said that she had nothing in common with these people at all !! She then went on to say that talking to me was the best conversation she'd had since moving here !! ( Must have been desperate )
When I remarked that in reality to me Spain wan't one country but 17 autonomous provinces i got the ¡Exactamente! & off she went into a diatribe about all the others.
Actually afterwards when I was thinking about the conversation it occurred to me that in all dealings with anyone from other regions not one has ever managed a civil word about Andalucia !

[markwilding]

it occurred to me that in all dealings with anyone from other regions not one has ever managed a civil word about Andalucia !

A lot of them spend their holidays there

[peteroldracer]

It is the opposite of the Scots: they all seem to go on about what a wonderful country it is but very few want to live there!

[gus-lopez]

it occurred to me that in all dealings with anyone from other regions not one has ever managed a civil word about Andalucia !

A lot of them spend their holidays there

But still don't have a civil word for them !

[Pamela1]

I don't think the Andalucian people would care...my husband told me that there's an old story about the people who come to Andalucía from the Barcelona region...they may think they are above everyone because they have the industry/factories but they don't know what it is to be fed until they come to Andalucía.

[Len S]

I have a member of Andalucia.com for several years. I don't contribute much but I like to read all the threads. In my opinion this thread has been one of the best I have read and I would I to congratulate all that have contributed. The subject is something that we all need to consider sometime in our lives. I have always tried to be a proactive rather than a reactive person and this subject is one that we all need to think carefully about and timing is critical.

Think about what you can do, and what you would like to to as you approach the twilight of your life. Our individual likes and circumstances will all be different and plans can be modified as circumstances change. However changing circumstances is not an excuse not to plan.

I cite my mother as someone who did plan but left it too late to implement as her health was against her in the end. My brothers and I tried to help her implement her plan but she kept putting it off. So my recommendation is do it before you need to as leaving it too late can massively adversely affect your quality of life as you approach your maker.

I would just like to wish you all a happy and heathly Christmas and New Year.

Ps I write this from my my sick bed, I've got Man Flu.
Pps you females have no idea how debilitating it is!!

[Mowser]

It is the opposite of the Scots: they all seem to go on about what a wonderful country it is but very few want to live there!

What do you mean? Have you not seen the tourist blurb on YouTube? Have a look then change your mind. As the video will show you, it's a wonderful place. (Not for the faint-hearted as there are bad words).

(I've moved the response to the Amigo Lounge).

[katy]

As the thread title referred to 'Spain' and not Andalucia I do feel it is valid to point out that not everywhere is as dreadful as Andalucia seems to be regarding health cover and old/dementia care

We have health cards that link to the health system computers here; GP, Farmacia and hospitals. Waiting time for x-rays and to see a specialist are usually two or three days. Health checks with blood and body fluid tests every year are mandatory with everything checked including thyroid and prostate thingys. Health care here is preventative and robust.

We have care homes for the elderly and they seem fine. There is an efficient system of cleaners, bathers and cooks go out from the Ayuntamiento each morning to 'do' for people who are in need of help. All my neighbours have help and laugh about the day I'll join them on the rota.

Of course, being alone and old is tough. Old age is not for wimps. I wouldn't like to be old and unwell in Andalucia, from what some of you write, and I can understand that the UK would look a much better place to be old. I know that. However, Andalucia is not representative of Spain. Nowhere near.

I suppose health care is according to people's perceptions. I saw on Spanish TV during the summer that Extremadura has one of the longest waiting lists in Spain. They interviewed a Guy who had been waiting 10 months for a heart procedure. The stats are worse than Andalucia.

[Lavanda]

This thread has taken a very strange turn for me. I'm currently, and unexpectedly, in the UK. My Dad is in hospital having fallen down the stairs and broken some ribs. While I may not come back to the UK to secure 'better?' health care for myself I might consider coming back to the UK to secure better healthcare for my Dad. Weird or what?

Katy, Happy Christmas! Practical and real experience is always a better guide to what is going on than watching a telly programme or reading something in the paper, especially when statistics are concerned. However, right now, I'm dealing with something much more important ...