Autumn Statement 25th November

[Unicorn]

I notice in the Autumn Statement that pensioners who spend more than 4 weeks abroad will lose pension credits and housing benefits.

Although not affected myself I wonder how on earth they will check on this. Do you have to 'sign on' for these top ups? As passports are not stamped in Europe how could they know?

It does seem a bit tough on people with families in, say, Australia, New Zealand and the like when it is not really worth going for a short time.

I suppose also it would be women hardest hit as they are less likely to qualify for a full pension with the qualifying number of years.

I have no experience of benefits of any kind and do not know how they are administered but I guess this may affect some people who come here for long periods of time but are resident in the UK.

I would be interested to hears anyone's views on this.

[Len S]

It seems an entirely sensible policy to me. Why should UK tax payers subsidise holidays abroad for those on benefits. The vast majority of UK taxpayers, me included, are content that our taxes help deserving cases who require financial help, but not for people who are jetting off to the antipodes.
Please remember that there are many UK tax payers who are struggling with the financial demands of raising families etc; a holiday to any destination is impossible for them.

[Unicorn]

I neither agree nor disagree with it as I am unsure on what basis these payments are made and agree that there are many very hard up people trying to make ends meet in what appear to be very trying times in the UK.

I was more wondering how they would enforce it.

And I do know some people who have family in Australia who pay for grandparents to visit. Whether they are in receipt of these benefits I have no idea.

What I was thinking was whether it was one of those policies that get announced and then sort of forgotten as policing it is very expensive.

[gus]

I also see problems in policing a change like this. I have also searched online and can find no mention of this change - any link would be appreciated.

[Free at Last]

My aunt, who is 91 (and does not leave her own house any more, let alone travel abroad) receives Pension Credit. She was visited at home, years ago, by an adviser from the local Council who completed the forms for her, and was told that she would continue to receive it for the rest of her life, with no need for periodic reassessment, and certainly to date she has never been asked to submit any further information. There was probably a sentence at the end of the letter saying "if your circumstances change, please let us know"! If someone in her circumstances did decide to travel abroad for any length of time (to visit a relative, say) I can't for the life of me think how the DWP would have any idea they had left the country.

[Free at Last]

It seems that these "idefinite income assessment periods" as they are known, are to be abolished, but those people already on them (like my aunt) will stay on them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 6-2014.pdf

[El Cid]

It does seem a bit tough on people with families in, say, Australia, New Zealand and the like when it is not really worth going for a short time.

If they can afford to fly to Oz or NZ then they don't need pension credits.

Sid

[Free at Last]

If they can afford to fly to Oz or NZ then they don't need pension credits.

Sid

But the question is, how will the DWP know if they do travel abroad, and how long for?

[El Cid]

They won't, unless someone tips off the DWP.

Sid

[gerryh]

If you live in the UK you have to submit your Advanced Passenger Information, or something like that name, which gives your passport number to the airline to fly out and fly back in. As the Airline knows where you are going then, don't know if it happens, but it is easy for the airline to pass he information to the relevant movement department.
As I say I don't know if it does work this way but it would be fairly easy to set up shuch a system if it doesn't already exist.
Cheers
Gerry

[El Cid]

True Gerry, but if they can't keep track of returning Jihadis and hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants, I do think Fred and Doris spending two months in Benidorm are fairly safe!

Sid

[Free at Last]

At the moment the API details are only shared with the UK Border Force, but perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea if they were also shared with the DWP and the NHS. Then they could be used to take all or part of the WFA away from pensioners who spend the winter abroad (if they're not in the UK during the winter they don't need it, do they?) and catch out those people who live abroad but pretend they are resident in the UK by using someone else's address, in order to return to the UK for healthcare and avoid paying Spanish taxes.

[Unicorn]

Gerry, that looks like it could be set up but how about other means of travel?

I haven't been through a land frontier for ages, except Gibraltar.

There is no indication they do any checking but it is probably different.

But if you travel by car from UK to Spain by car does anyone check?

[gerryh]

Gerry, that looks like it could be set up but how about other means of travel?
But if you travel by car from UK to Spain by car does anyone check?

The only ways out of the UK are by air, passports needed, by ferry, passports needed, or by tunnel by car or train, I assume passports are also needed but never used the tunnel.
Cheers
Gerry

[El Cid]

Yes, but do they keep records of who leaves the UK?

Sid

[El Cid]

Then they could be used to take all or part of the WFA away from pensioners who spend the winter abroad (if they're not in the UK during the winter they don't need it, do they?) and catch out those people who live abroad but pretend they are resident in the UK by using someone else's address, in order to return to the UK for healthcare and avoid paying Spanish taxes.

All UK state pensioners who live in Spain are now allowed unconditional free NHS healthcare in the UK should they choose to return even for a short visit.

Sid

[Unicorn]

Is that just pensioners? When that was first talked about they were going to include people who had paid 10 years or more National Insurance.

[Free at Last]

All UK state pensioners who live in Spain are now allowed unconditional free NHS healthcare in the UK should they choose to return even for a short visit.

Sid

I know - but people who are living in Spain below retirement age (early retired, maybe, or working on the black) and deliberately haven't registered as residents in Spain so that they can return to the UK for healthcare, and not have to pay tax in Spain, are not. Sharing the API information with the DWP and NHS would go a long way towards stopping that, don't you think? It could be included in the automatic sharing of financial information arrangements, thus passing the information on to Spain.

[Free at Last]

Even if it were possible to stop pension credit for recipients who spend more than a month out of the country (and do people really believe that many of those whose income is topped up to 151.25 a week for a single person or 230 a week for a couple could afford to do it?) I bet the amount of money it would save would be dwarfed by what they have lost by scrapping car tax discs.


http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/n ... -tax-discs

That 80M lost is more than 4 times the amount supposedly saved by taking the WFA away from expats in most EU countries.

[olive]

I wonder which bureaucrat came up with 4 weeks, why not 30 days or 25 or 15?

How does that sit with a UK family member getting a break from caring for an elderly person while he/she stays with their relatives who dwell in Spain for a while? Probably best to cast the elderly relative out and let the state pick up the full tab. Bad luck for the next tranche without legacy benefits.