How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost you

Do you have a query on how to get things done in Andalucia, where to find things, who to call? Find out by posting and hear about others experiences.
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peteroldracer
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How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost you

Postby peteroldracer » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:16 pm

We have probably all met them - "I don't need to register here with the health service"....."I am not resident because I haven't signed the padron"...."I can always go back to the UK if I need treatment"....
Well one couple sadly are finding out just how stupid that attitude is. Both are in their early 70s and live in Spain full time.
He is an amputee plus missing toes on the other leg, she his carer and driver. They have been going back to the UK for most medical treatment, and used the EHIC for minor scrapes.
She has had a couple of 'funny turns' so used the EHIC to get looked at in the local hospital. They have found a brain tumour, so they now have a load of troubles: she cannot drive so they are both stuck; she cannot fly back to the UK for treatment due to her condition; if she did get back to the UK she is highly unlikely to get free NHS treatment, plus he has the double problem of finding somewhere to stay while she is being treated and possibly recuperating, and cannot drive so will have travel costs to and from hospital; she is not covered for treatment here in Spain, so will have to pay all the costs which could be substantial, brain surgery never being cheap, plus he will have to rely on a rota of friends to take him to and fro to visit, or pay a fortune in taxis.

If their failure to get their S1 coverage here seems familiar to you do something about it - Monday!

I am of course ignoring all the stress pain and trauma that any serious illness brings.
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby ajtg1952 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:18 am

They will no doubt get help from somewhere, they always do. It really make my blood boil those who stay beyond 183 days and flaunt the fact they pay nothing. I have a couple live near me, both in their 70's, told me they've just bought a load of firewood with their winter fuel allowance which they both get individually as they are not married and use separate family addresses in the UK.

But as I have said before and been told I'm wrong on this Forum, the illegals are in the majority and when this happens they only have themselves to blame.

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby truebrit » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:26 am

Had similar with a friend of mine, no need to sign on for health care. Had a heart attack and double heart bypass last year, then he was told he was no longer eligible for healthcare and would have to pay for his own medication. He then reached 65 but not only no Heath care but no Residencia either! Now he is still waiting for everything to come right. Serves him right. Why do they do it? Is it just laziness?

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby peteroldracer » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:52 am

truebrit wrote: Why do they do it? Is it just laziness?
I have various idiotic (to me) reasons - "I don't want to be Spanish", "I don't speak the lingo" ( this usually after ten years or more living here and not having heard of interpreters), "I am British so pay my taxes in The UK"....the list goes on.
Just potentially very expensive stupidity, in my book.
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby knowal » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:57 am

I think some people are frightened of the truth and prefer constant deception. I couldn't live with that so I decided when I moved to Spain to write to all the authorities and told them straight. It was the best thing I ever did, as I was actually entitled to more than I thought. Taking up residencia and later transferring to the green certificate was also vital.

Finally, after living in Spain for almost two decades I wrote to all the authorities in the UK to tell them I was back. I couldn't be doing with the deception of trying to appear to live in 2 countries at the same time.

Obviously for the couple in the OP, it's a very hard lesson to learn.

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby ajtg1952 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:06 pm

truebrit wrote: Is it just laziness?
It is certainly not laziness, it is pure badness.

I know for sure there are illegals on this Forum and it is very noticeable none come on and try and justify themselves.

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby Devils Advocate » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:52 pm

It's even worse when you have a holiday home there, pay every tax you should, keep the gestors kids fed and t1t about at the ITV station every year to keep the car legal for a few weeks.

Whilst your "full time" neighbours over there are taking the pee.
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby Devils Advocate » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:00 pm

Oh and how do I know they take the pee?.......because they are brazen about it as are others, it's a gloatfest sometimes when they find out we actually pay for things and scam nobody.
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby Lavanda » Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:35 am

It's all about sleeping peacefully at night, isn't it? :angel:

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby ajtg1952 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:55 am

I was talking to an illegal acquaintance last night who was recently diagnosed with diabetes at the local health centre. They agreed to stabilise him and started him in initial treatment but have now said no more. He must go to the UK is he requires a prescription or more treatment.

Go to the top of the class that doctor. I just wish there were a lot more like him and squeeze these parasites out.

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby gerryh » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:58 am

ajtg1952 wrote: I know for sure there are illegals on this Forum and it is very noticeable none come on and try and justify themselves.
Don't know who the illegals are but I am definitely not one of them.
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby ajtg1952 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:04 am

I didn't think for one minute you would be Gerry !

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby olive » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:27 am

I trust the collective might and venom of the forum can come up with a better word or phrase to cover these illegal parasites. :lol:

Whilst agreeing wholeheartedly with the general principle, I wonder how many forum members do everything right?

Isn't this also a bit like focussing on minutiae? i.e. an unquantified number of illegal parasites whilst large corporations like Google pay diddly squat in tax and when they kindly agree to pay something like £100 million the collective morons hail or view it as a major success. All to do with humans generally not being able to grasp anything bigger than small.

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby peteroldracer » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:33 am

Olive, I posted the OP just in case anyone on here had their head in the sand, or knew someone who has.
A few minutes sorting their status would have saved these unfortunate people a small fortune.
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby truebrit » Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:08 pm

When we came over in 2000 we also decided to do everything we should, NIE, padron, Residencia, private health care etc., I'm glad we did because it was certainly much easier in those days. However I do get a bit miffed with those who tell you you must do this or that and that if you don't all sorts of bad things will happen to you! Go with your own instincts do what you think is right. Ask for help if you need it.

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby elusive » Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:20 pm

Lavanda wrote:It's all about sleeping peacefully at night, isn't it? :angel:
.problem is then you worry about being picked out by the tax man for an internal :silent: :sick:

Re the O.P i found out a neighbour is doing the exact thing. Lived here years. Wife is registared but they didnt bother and just use the blue card. Why not if your wife did? You cant reason with stupidity :crazy:

Have to say its one of the few things that really pees me off about living here.you do everything by the book then you see aquaintances who dont become residents flip back and forth back to the uk to see the G.P (they can afford to retire in the 50's thanks to the uk goverment but cant afford private healthcare!) drive illegal cars. dont pay tax here but the uk and on and on and on.the same people that read the daily (f)ail and moan about jonny F in the uk.they want all the positives of spain the cheap booze etc etc but dont want any of the supposed negatives. Sorry you cant have it both ways! Well these lot do and you get looked at funny for doing everything right like your the one in the wrong! At least we got a very nice tax rebate ftom the uk for doing things right. One little victory.

But then you have the other side of things were the spanish system discriminates against you and you wonder why even try to do the right thing. free Healthcare for legal residents been an example.

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby masterob » Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:13 pm

ajtg1952 wrote:-
I have a couple live near me, both in their 70's, told me they've just bought a load of firewood with their winter fuel allowance which they both get individually as they are not married and use separate family addresses in the UK.
If you know for fact then why not report them to HMRC/Pensions Office? Wouldn't that be more productive that just having a whinge here? Quite honestly I would have no hesitation in dropping such cheats in it!

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby olive » Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:48 pm

I wonder if these winter fuel miscreants were a couple for years and weren't able to claim the married persons allowance thus saving the UK a nice whack. I also wonder what possesses people in that position to brag about what they are doing. Yes dob them in for bragging :thumbup:

As I said earlier this all smacks of concentrating on the small stuff while just accepting the huge outgoings without question. You could for example look at Trident. How many winter fuel allowances is that going to cost?

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby peteroldracer » Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:08 pm

As "little people" we cannot influence decisions about Trident, when and where we go to war, and how much to spend on a vaccine for the mozzie disease, but we sure as hell can protect ourselves as best we can by using the system provided for us and not cheating anyone.
I report misusers of the NHS, benefit cheats and expats driving here in SORNed cars.
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby Unicorn » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:25 pm

I was jeered at for years for filing a tax return but that eventually paid off when the healthcare for fiscal residents kicked in.
I agree that it is the boasting that is so sickening. Like wearing not speaking any Spanish as a badge of pride.
And Olive, agree that Google etc tax arrangements are not great, but I do not think that in the majority of cases of people being here illegally and claiming healthcare is some sort of political statement, it is just taking the pee It is also amazing that they complain about paying more IBI than residents.

And what does happen if a non ITVed/insured car hits you? Anyone know?

There does seem to be a vast network of dodgy advice giving on how to evade/avoid authorities, but people should beware. When the Spanish authorities come down on you it is a veritable ton of bricks. In these crisis times I suggest they may do that increasingly.

I sleep easy though, being a goody goody - as legal as I know how!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:


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