How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost you

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Lavanda
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby Lavanda » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:15 am

:shock: Pistols at dawn should sort this one out, I think. :lol:

I'm not in to reporting anyone for anything but I do tackle people directly, loudly and in front of third parties if I think it's worth my effort, but I'm therefore part of the wider problem in NOT reporting people who break the law, aren't I? The law is clear. Some people are breaking the law in how they live here. They are criminals and not ignorant, in many cases. Let 'minor' things go and where and when do you get to the line defining 'major' things? It's too complicated and involves moral judgements and setting oneself up as, in fact, a judge. Rather arrogant, I think. The law is not always clear - think Assange - but driving and living here without the paperwork is pretty crystal, no?

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby truebrit » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:35 am

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"!

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby Miro » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:04 am

chrissyboy wrote: Really?
Is that how you two 'gurus' fill up your day?
Gurus? What a stupid comment. And no, reporting a simple crime when witnessed hardly takes up anyone's day. And there's no moral judgment to be made in reporting a crime either. Surely it's a civic duty? Should I have not called the police & acted as a witness that secured the conviction of three nasty thugs who beat up and left for dead a local resident one night outside my home? As for setting oneself up as a judge? - hardly. Report a crime, then leave it to the legal / judicial system to do it's job. I'm not on some sort of obsessive witch-hunt of all foreign registered cars, but if I see a clapped out UK van held together by tinfoil and gaffer tape, with bald tyres, belching out noxious fumes, driving around my neighborhood with impunity for years, putting myself and my fellow citizens at risk, I feel I have every right to report the crime. And then, leave the authorities to do whatever they see fit.
And let's not start quoting religion. The religious ones are usually the worst.

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby peteroldracer » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:42 am

Well put!
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby Lavanda » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:07 pm

That's more-or-less what I said, Miro but I should have put "If we ..." in front of the "Let..." as I think you misunderstood the nuance of my post.
The law is clear. Some people are breaking the law in how they live here. They are criminals and not ignorant, in many cases. Let 'minor' things go and where and when do you get to the line defining 'major' things?
The bottom line for all of us should be what would we feel if someone we knew was driving illegally killed someone? If we could walk away and think it's not our problem then, I think, we are not fit to live in a decent society. :angel: Suppose an illegal driver killed your child and you had known for years they were illegal and had done nothing about it? We need to do some joined up thinking here. I don't report, as I wrote, but I do tackle, also as I wrote, loudly and publicly.

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby katy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:44 pm

Driving a UK car is an administrative offence. It does not necessarily indicate the driver is dangerous. I owned UK cars for the first 4 years in Spain. Why, because a relative had a large BMW concession in Surrey and got a great deal. I only changed to Spanish plates because I got fed up of having it scratched, blocked in, Brit hating Spaniards trying to run me off the road (or maybe they were Brit hating Brits) and once getting a parking fine when the other three Spanish plated cars didn't. I don't think I became a better driver having a Spanish car. It is quite possible to be killed by a legal Spanish driver whose car is held together by rope! Strangely it does not seem to bother expat vigilantes unless it is a Brit. I don't understand the mentality :? I find the whole idea of reporting minor traffic infractions mean and vindictive. Can any of you vigilantes explain why it is the Brits that raise your blood pressure? Look at the Spanish stats for driving infractions. I bet a lot of you paid black money when buying your house or pay a Gardner etc in the hand too.

Just one point. The Spanish Police don't really care, they have bigger fish to fry. They also cannot afford to keep impounding cars unless they have to. A Marbella Policeman told me. An example of this was in the news recently about camper vans being parked illegally in Alicante. Police stated they do not have the resources to tow them away.

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby Lavanda » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:56 pm

Driving a UK car is an administrative offence. It does not necessarily indicate the driver is dangerous. I owned UK cars for the first 4 years in Spain.
Agreed, the driver might not be dangerous but they are sloppy enough not to take responsibility to make sure they are legal and this may spill over into areas like not having insurance. Okay, if you are killed by a person with insurance you are still dead but it might mean something to the person who has to carry on without the dead person.

I think people on here are concerned with Brits who drive illegally and less so with the Spanish who drive illegally for obvious reasons. We are British. It reflects on us. It's obvious. Isn't it?

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby Miro » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:07 pm

katy wrote:I only changed to Spanish plates because I got fed up of having it scratched, blocked in, Brit hating Spaniards trying to run me off the road...when the Spanish plated cars didn't
Ridiculous! Those things have happened to me (especially the scratches) with all my Spanish plated cars.
katy wrote:It is quite possible to be killed by a legal Spanish driver whose car is held together by rope! Strangely it does not seem to bother expat vigilantes unless it is a Brit. I don't understand the mentality :? I find the whole idea of reporting minor traffic infractions mean and vindictive. Can any of you vigilantes explain why it is the Brits that raise your blood pressure?
It's not "Brits" that get my goat, it's illegal, but more importantly, dangerous vehicles. When I said earlier "where do I start, there's so many of them" I was joking, but I then gave an example of one particular vehicle that has been a concern of mine for some time. I also happen to know that the culprit is guilty of many other "minor infractions", which frankly are of no concern to me, although the authorities might well be interested, if they ever bothered to pull him over and investigate.

Good point Lavanda. As they say: when you're dead, you don't know it, so it only affects those around you. Same goes for stupid. :evil:
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby peteroldracer » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:59 pm

Maybe I am wrong, but I expect better of a Brit? The culture, habits and attitudes of Spanish people have been formed and caused by their history, and changes to their habits of peeing in the street, mistreatment of animals, generally lacking consideration of others and generally seeming to enjoy defying right and wrong are gradually coming.
So many expats that are obviously determined to ignore laws of the land they have chosen to live in appear to be respectable white-collar folk who would not dream of carrying on in that way should they be living in the UK. Some sort of change seems to have come over them when they come here.
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby katy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:03 pm

Lavanda wrote:
Driving a UK car is an administrative offence. It does not necessarily indicate the driver is dangerous. I owned UK cars for the first 4 years in Spain.

I think people on here are concerned with Brits who drive illegally and less so with the Spanish who drive illegally for obvious reasons. We are British. It reflects on us. It's obvious. Isn't it?
Less so with the Spanish who drive illegally for obvious reasons....eh. What does that mean. Do they have a special amnesty.

I never thought anything the British do in Spain reflects on me. Doesn't say much for the Spanish does it if you feel they won't like you because of a few bad eggs.

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby katy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:07 pm

Some sort of change seems to come over them when they move here. I would agree with that Peter. Embittered, vindictive, nosey whingers. :D

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby peteroldracer » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:15 pm

One man's embittered, vindictive, nosey whinger is another man's upright citizen with a sense of civic responsibility....I have not changed since moving to Spain.
In your leafy Surrey enclave should a neighbour be seen shoplifting, or play loud music, or deal "recreational" drugs from their house, would you say that it was no concern of yours?
Would you be happy if your grandchildren were round, playing in your drive, and a couple of underage drivers were racing up and down the street?
I rather think not!
Last edited by peteroldracer on Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby Miro » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:19 pm

katy wrote:Doesn't say much for the Spanish does it if you feel they won't like you because of a few bad eggs.
Perhaps not, but you're the one who suggested that they deliberately target UK plated cars. Why would they do that? (BTW, I think that's rubbish anyway, they're not prejudiced when it comes to damaging other people's cars)
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby katy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:21 pm

Miro wrote:
katy wrote:Doesn't say much for the Spanish does it if you feel they won't like you because of a few bad eggs.
Perhaps not, but you're the one who suggested that they deliberately target UK plated cars. Why would they do that? (BTW, I think that's rubbish anyway, they're not prejudiced when it comes to damaging other people's cars)
Do the Spanish make a habit of scraping a car with an implement then?

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby Miro » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:27 pm

I have absolutely no idea what you're going on about now so....I'm out :wave:
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby markwilding » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:14 pm

There are no British plated cars here and a feature of more or less every car is a scrape. Lack of parking spaces is the problem and people try to squeeze their car into any little space they can find.

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby swerve » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:07 pm

Keep it up peeps. It's the best laugh I've had all year on this forum. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby fincalospinos » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:34 pm

Perhaps one reason the police target foreign cars is because they dont have access to the insurance register on those vehicles, as they do on Spanish plated vehicles. This will always be the case until a full EU database is set up by the insurance companies.
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby peteroldracer » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:51 pm

Trafico can access insurance data so they can tell if insured.
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Re: How thinking it is clever to not follow the law can cost

Postby katy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:03 pm

Perhaps they always could :? I was pulled in my UK car on one of the GCs routine roundabout checks. They took all my documents, gave them my passport instead of residencia, insurance, licence etc. They took them back to their vehicle and were gone for some time. They were very polite :)


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