The process for withdrawal from the E.U.

[flyeogh]

I find it breathtaking that any of us could just accept the concept of an EU army.

But we accept the concept of NATO and a British Army! Why is that OK?

I can see you think a federal EU is a bad thing. I agree with you. Many others agree with that and are fighting to ensure an alternative route is found.

However living in Spain the one way I can increase the chances of me living in a federal Europe is by voting for Brexit.

ps: If we do leave it will be interesting what happens in Scotland. Another referendum. They go indy to stay in the EU (very popular up there). As part of their entry they agree to the EU army being stationed in Scotland. And the brits have no say

[katy]

I find it breathtaking that any of us could just accept the concept of an EU army.

But we accept the concept of NATO and a British Army! Why is that OK?


ps: If we do leave it will be interesting what happens in Scotland. Another referendum. They go indy to stay in the EU (very popular up there). As part of their entry they agree to the EU army being stationed in Scotland. And the brits have no say

I would prefer to have America in charge of security than the EU. It would take months of wrangling to decide on any action needed. Naturally Anerica has a large say in NATO, it is 70% funded by them.

According to the Armed Forces Minister there is nothing the UK can do to prevent an EU army. The provision for it was written in the Lisbon Treaty.

The scenario you describe with Scotland is exactly the same as what Russia is afraid of happening in Ukraine. The EU caused the new frost with Russia. Although if that were to happen in Scotland the UK could kick out the foreign army whilst the EU were thinking of what to do. Ha ta.

[detourer]

When and before you cast your vote on whether to remain in the EU or not take a look what is going on all over Europe. Forget the main media [how many of them transmitted yesterday’s riots and destruction in Calais for example] and check-out Poland, Italy, Gemany, Slovac etc etc……….. What position in Europe do you want to be part of? Why vote to remain in an already “Broken Europe”.

http://silenceisconsent.net/battlefield ... 9Kss7.dpbs

[markwilding]

One figure is correct. 10,000 EU officials are paid more than our PM.

.

And a slightly smaller percentage of UK officials are as well.

[markwilding]

When and before you cast your vote on whether to remain in the EU or not take a look what is going on all over Europe. Forget the main media [how many of them transmitted yesterday’s riots and destruction in Calais for example] and check-out Poland, Italy, Gemany, Slovac etc etc……….. What position in Europe do you want to be part of? Why vote to remain in an already “Broken Europe”.

http://silenceisconsent.net/battlefield ... 9Kss7.dpbs

Don't forget the riots we have in Britain. Some particularly nasty ones no so long ago around the country.

[detourer]

Quite right Mark...clearly you did not have time to watch the rather "Nasty" riot video of the one in France....... Never mind, didn't see it so it didn't happen....lol

[katy]

Been a lot of trouble in Germany too. Reports a few weeks ago of a large disturbance in a Berlin park with some stabbings, took the BBC a few days to report they were migrants!

[detourer]

When or if you vote IN have a think…….. without “Googling” name 6 of the top Non-Elected commissioners. You can have the president Jean-Claude Juncker [there’s an apt name if ever there was one], so you only need 5.

On a lighter note. I have a sister who works for the EU in Brussels and Strasberg ……not a high office/role, just a worker on a little over 45.000e per year. plus that many “extras” it’s a joke………Last month she worked 7 full days and 2 half days and at the moment she has NO days booked for June!!!!!
.

[olive]

I find it breathtaking that any of us could just accept the concept of an EU army.

But we accept the concept of NATO and a British Army! Why is that OK?

I can see you think a federal EU is a bad thing. I agree with you. Many others agree with that and are fighting to ensure an alternative route is found.

However living in Spain the one way I can increase the chances of me living in a federal Europe is by voting for Brexit.

ps: If we do leave it will be interesting what happens in Scotland. Another referendum. They go indy to stay in the EU (very popular up there). As part of their entry they agree to the EU army being stationed in Scotland. And the brits have no say

I thought the EU was a common market trading organisation. It has morphed into all sorts of other things above its station. I do not see any evidence of this many others agree and are fighting to ensure an alternative route is found.

An EU army. Who will be its commander in chief? Who will make on the ground decisions? The latter is something that the EU is incapable of at a high level though they would have plenty of summits to try. Sure they can organise rules regarding oven gloves but just look at their track record. The EU army would never be located in Scotland. It will be somewhere like Brussels with a move each month for four days to somewhere like Strasbourg.

-Migration of refugees/asylum seekers/economic migrants/ and a few Satanic State terrorists? The handling of this and the divisive nature of the outcomes has been a disaster.

-Turkey. cash plus visas for handling returned migrants. A disaster.

-Eurozone. still teetering on the edge. Portugal, France, Italy and of course Greece.

PS a British army looks after the interests of Britain. Like a sovereignty thing. Whose interests would an EU army look after ? I guess you are saying NATO is time expired if you advocate an EU army.

[flyeogh]

PS a British army looks after the interests of Britain. Like a sovereignty thing. Whose interests would an EU army look after ? I guess you are saying NATO is time expired if you advocate an EU army.

I wouldn't say NATO has expired but a gradual move to European decision making may have advantages in the future.

As for who is in command we can clearly see where in the middle east many EU countries are fighting and others supporting the US is in command. That could mean Mr Trump But in truth command is a military role, the politicians make the grand strategic decisions and leave the military to it - thankfully

And just think back to the Bush/Blair fiasco. Would the EU of rushed in? And if not would we have such a massive displaced peoples issue? Accept for the French I think most EU countries are somewhat more cautious of aggressive military acts than the UK and see their military as largely a defensive option. No bad thing as it turns out.

[olive]

I should have made myself more clear. By who is in command I mean the person who decides on action now, today if - a few made up scenarios.

A Russian sub is found in the Clyde near Glasgow
A troopship disgorges 300 commandos at Scarborough
An unknown miltary fighter plane with weaponry locked on appears in Welsh airspace.

That person would also have to consult the PM (or deputy if they were on holiday.)

Who is going to be consulted in the EU army scenario? Who would be incharge of this EU army?.

The EU wouldn't have rushed in. It seems incapable of doing anything needed promptly or effectively. That is my point

We are getting off track. The key point is that a common market trading association doesn't need an army. A federal Europe almost certainly would need one.

[markwilding]

Quite right Mark...clearly you did not have time to watch the rather "Nasty" riot video of the one in France....... Never mind, didn't see it so it didn't happen....lol

That's because it's not relevent to staying in or out of the EU any more than the riots in the UK was as a result of us being in the EU.
France will still be there with its industrial unrest whether the UK is in or out.

[Lavanda]

Let's not get carried away and go completely off-topic. Although the USA has been hopelessly weak under the Obama Administration do you really think that the USA will let NATO drift at the expense of an EU Army? It's all red-herring stuff and obfuscates the central issues. The EU is not going down the Federal route although some people like to think so and spout endless nonsense to support the idea. Do you really think the ex-USSR countries are going to hand over their new-found freedom only to have it replaced by the EU? Calm down, everyone. There IS a trend in the EU towards the Right-Wing of the political spectrum and the trend and mood in the EU is restless and shifting away from ideas that might have seemed possible a few years ago. The German Elections will be telling but I suspect Mama Merkel will be out of power. People in the EU are NOT powerless but are in danger of being brain-washed into thinking they are. Remember, we will get what we deserve and vote for!

[markwilding]

And just think back to the Bush/Blair fiasco. Would the EU of rushed in? And if not would we have such a massive displaced peoples issue? Accept for the French I think most EU countries are somewhat more cautious of aggressive military acts than the UK

Good point,
Both France and Germany were against the Iraq war and there was no UN mandate. What might have happed if the had been some sort of EU accord Spain and The UK had not been able to go in with the Americans?

Maybe no difference but maybe things would had turned out completely different.

[olive]

Mark, in many ways your response mirrors what we Outers see in the EU. Carry on regardless of some demonstrations or protests against more austerity or the rise in the far right or left . The EU causes and leaves a wake of these things but somehow they are other peoples problems or nothing to do with the EU.

It is that disregard of people , blindly sticking to a path and most importantly failing to adapt to the needs of its people that make me vote out. I feel very bitter that we British people have been put through this referendum at all. Worse if we make the wrong decision then the EU just has a mandate to press on with whatever secret agenda it has like an EU army. This vote is the most important any of us will make in our entire lives. You won't get another go in 4 years to vote differently.

[Beachcomber]

Is Cameron about to do yet another U-turn and jump ship?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... -brexit-g7

Cameron being a member of the 'Remain' brigade is a great asset to the leavers so they wouldn't be very happy if he wanted to join them.

[markwilding]

Olive
And you reponse indicates what I believe is the main fault of the exit arguements which is that the EU is the reason for all our problems. Vote out but all the problems you post about will not just go away. The UK has high levels of debt but we are not in the monetary union. We have high levels immigration from outside the EU but we have control over this type.

The Tory party on both sides are making wild predictions that really have nothing to do with the fundemental argument.
Do we want to be the club looking out or out, looking in?
I really don't believe all the negative stuff from the remainers in the government any more than I do than the false promise of a new age in democracy and the land of hope and glory.

[olive]

Well it is true to say that the EU has created problems whilst doing a lot of good work(mostly that work is in the areas it should be in). Vote out and Britain regains control over its destiny and leaves the EU to get on with its life and its hidden agenda. True the Uk has high levels of debt but it has a good economy. The same cannot be said of many EU countries especially those tied to the Euro.

Do we want to be in the club paying handsomely and still failing to change it OR do we want to control our own destiny- something we have been remarkably good at in the past and will be in the future.

I still also feel very aggrieved that possibly for the first time in British History the government and establishment are not on the side of common sense and what is best for Britain. It is like they are all paralysed and glued to the EU. Most disturbing. Britain should have been presenting the case for out and the EU the case for in.

[Lavanda]

do we want to control our own destiny- something we have been remarkably good at in the past and will be in the future.

What a sweeping statement. Let's see: the UK was invaded by the 'Swiss' Celts, the 'Italian' Romans, the 'German' Saxons, the 'French' Normans and, latterly, almost everyone I can think of. We did very well out of the Medieval Wool trade and agriculture. The Industrial Revolution was a disaster as we were the China of the Victorian Age producing shoddy goods for forced markets worldwide. Two world wars were won but we were not independently standing alone. Without the Polish Pilots and the American forces it might have been touch and go. Our finest hour was defeating the Armada and winning Trafalgar and Waterloo. Then, we were brilliant.

Sorry, Olive, I usually agree with what you post, but you are looking at a UK that hasn't existed for a long, long time. On the world stage, with the current crop of politicians, where on earth do you really, really think our future will be? I don't see Cameron's international standing at all. I worry about that. On the other hand, there's an old saying that a people would rather be ruled by a bad native ruler than a good foreign one.

[olive]

I'll not spend a lot of time defending what I wrote other than to say Britain is the worlds 5th biggest economy. We aren't there through accident. A Britain having left the EU would thrive. I do not get" UK that hasn't existed for a long, long time" It is still a world leader in many fields. If it is so bad why do so many want to go there to live and work? What no one has mentioned is that trade would continue. If it didn't it would probably plunge the world into recession. In any case Britain and the EU are so closely interlinked trade would have to continue. Think also of all the foreign owned companies in the Uk and Uk owned companies in EU countries. There are 245,000 employees in Uk of German owned companies apparently as an example. The only slight problem might be if post Brexit , the EU and Junckers turned vindictive. The latter has already shown his colours.

I do agree with you about the politicians. Cameron is toast and he recognised that before he called the referendum. I can only assume he is after a job in the EU. We have had a successive shower and the ones waiting in the wings don't inspire. But it is democracy unlike our EU Commissioners.