The process for withdrawal from the E.U.

[katy]

My point was your posts always refer to UKIP and things have moved on. The official group is the establishment with Boris at the head. Farage does it so much better, leave needs him.

Did you see the Afro-Caribbean woman on Question time when discussing free movement for young people? She made the same point as I did that many young people at the bottom of the pile don't aspire to moving abroad and setting up businesses or travel, it's a middle class thing.

[Beachcomber]

Wasn't one of the 'Peace in Our Time' 'concessions' that Cameron secured a few months ago a promise that there would be no European army:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05 ... om-voters/

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/ ... -3j3kg3zwj

I wonder what will happen to the other 'concessions', such as they were, if there is a remain vote?

[flyeogh]

Wasn't one of the 'Peace in Our Time' 'concessions' that Cameron secured a few months ago a promise that there would be no European army:

That's interesting an raises a point. I'm sure there are many Brexit and non Brexit that might think such a military force is a good thing, and vice versa.

Clearly the people who have taken a decision which leaves no room for manoeuvre or concession could never admit that on certain issues they are at odds with their main objective.

At least a EU army would not include Turkey which I can see as a big positive.

ps: Both those links say there are plans for an EU army. Would it surprise anyone that there are also plans for there not being an EU army? We pay EU leaders to plan for all possibilities and we live in changing times. So those links relate in no way to D Cameron.

[markwilding]

.

Did you see the Afro-Caribbean woman on Question time when discussing free movement for young people? She made the same point as I did that many young people at the bottom of the pile don't aspire to moving abroad and setting up businesses or travel, it's a middle class thing.

I did,
I don't agree with that argument though. Having said that, there should be more people like her on both sides because she looked at it from a different perspective.

[El Cid]

At least a EU army would not include Turkey which I can see as a big positive.

I am interested why you would say that. Turkey has a bigger army than the rest of the EU put together - is that a good or a bad thing?

Sid

[flyeogh]

At least a EU army would not include Turkey which I can see as a big positive.

I am interested why you would say that. Turkey has a bigger army than the rest of the EU put together - is that a good or a bad thing?

Sid

Sid I think the motives of the Turkey leadership are very suspect. They seem only interested in the distruction of the Kurds, the end of Assad and trading with ISIS. Not people I'd want to do business with.

The size of their army I can't see is relevant. China has a big army but I don't think we should help them invade the south china seas.

[El Cid]

The size of their army I can't see is relevant. .

Presumably an EU army would be part of NATO. My point is that Turkey has the biggest army in NATO (after the USA) so it would seem to be relevant.

Sid

[olive]

Ah Turkey, the same country that has the EU over a barrel with their cash and visas in return for help with returned migrants. The EU maybe has a plan B . Just as well as they maybe needing it very soon. What an EU fiasco.

[katy]

Why the need for an European army when there is NATO. I can imagine who will be paying the lions share to keep these countries playing with boys toys. Only USA, UK, Germany and France pay a reasonable amount into NATO. Most countries contribution is abysmal. Not only that most of those countries have a reputation of running away to fight another day. I know who would ge left holding the baby!

How would this army handle situations like this if NATO decided to operate a blockade. Which interest would it support.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/674 ... -Navy-base

[flyeogh]

Why the need for an European army when there is NATO.

A European army does not negate national armies or necessarily NATO. And a European army could be very useful in roles where for example non-european NATO members would not be very welcome or even useful. And with central funding it could ensure a fairer distribution of funding and more home grown compatible modern weapon systems. But of course the rich countries will have to shoulder the biggest burden.

Sid the turkey army is big in numbers and these days that doesn't mean so much. Thankfully the days of cannon fodder have largely gone. And if Turkey wasn't a member there would be no commitment for nato to defend what is a vast amount of hostile terrain. But I guess this is getting of topic so a good weekend one and all

[flyeogh]

Why the need for an European army when there is NATO.

A European army does not negate national armies or NATO. And a European army could be very useful in roles where for example non-european NATO members would not be very welcome or even useful. And with central funding it could ensure a fairer distribution of funding and more home grown compatible modern weapon systems. But of course the rich countries will have to shoulder the biggest burden.

Sid the turkey army is big in numbers and these days that doesn't mean so much. Thankfully the days of cannon fodder have largely gone. And if Turkey wasn't a member there would be no commitment for nato to defend what is a vast amount of hostile terrain. But I guess this is getting off topic so a good weekend one and all

[flyeogh]

Why the need for an European army when there is NATO.

A European army does not negate national armies or NATO. And a European army could be very useful in roles where for example non-european NATO members would not be very welcome or even useful. And with central funding it could ensure a fairer distribution of funding and more home grown compatible modern weapon systems. I personally think weening ourselves off of USA dependance would be no bad thing although accept that it will take decades.

Of course the rich countries will have to shoulder the biggest burden.

Sid the turkey army is big in numbers and these days that doesn't mean so much. Thankfully the days of cannon fodder have largely gone. And if Turkey wasn't a member there would be no commitment for nato to defend what is a vast amount of hostile terrain. But I guess this is getting off topic so a good weekend one and all

[peteroldracer]

I don't suppose the out-and-I-will-accept-any-guff-that-supports-my-view brigade would like to read this....?
UK contribution to EU budget per person (£)
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/fac ... /22804?44R

[Devils Advocate]

I don't suppose the out-and-I-will-accept-any-guff-that-supports-my-view brigade

And I don't suppose there's an "in-and-I-will-accept-any-guff-that-supports-my-view-brigade" is there? No of course not

[olive]

I don't suppose the out-and-I-will-accept-any-guff-that-supports-my-view brigade would like to read this....?
UK contribution to EU budget per person (£)
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/fac ... /22804?44R

Both sides are making ridiculous claims. Both should be ashamed but they are chasing the ordinary joe in the street vote. It is covered here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36397732

I like the example of laws from Brussels. IN claim only 12% come from Brussels. OUT claim 80%. Actual figure is between 33% and 35% depending what you include. Still probably 30% too many.

[olive]

I wonder if this European Army would have be sent into France to clear the protestors and save disrupting the precious Euro Football 2016.?

Actually the EU Army is a splendid example of the king has got no clothes on. All of us should be up in arms (if you pardon the pun) at the mere thought. Just what the hell do the EU think they need an army for? Maybe we are back to preventing the outbreak of WW3 folowing a Brexit, suppressing right wing demos? Who knows. We all have a right to know. We will of course find out after the Remain vote triumphs in June as it surely will. It has everything going for it except sense. Apathy, loyalty to the club, no uncertainty, short termism (will my pension be affected, my healthcare, my exchange rate) and of course vested interests. Out only has common sense, what the EU has morphed into since the 70's common market and the ordinary person. In a real environmenty the government of the country would have come out in favour of leaving and backed that. Britains government cannot- it is a puppet of the EU. Today I looked at Cameron and deep down I saw an EU sceptic. I wonder how he sleeps at night.

[katy]

One figure is correct. 10,000 EU officials are paid more than our PM.

All the dispute about how much the UK pays into the pot annoys me. Wether it is 350 million or 150 million it is too much! I prefer to look at the whole figure. The fact is the UK hands over 13 billion a year, of course money comes back but it rarely goes to what the UK wants/needs. If anyone doesn't believe me check some of the companies organisations who get the money given back. Not to mention the large landowners who get millions instead of small farmers.

I am sick and tired of reading NET figures for everything. So there is an airy fairy net contribution. Then there is net immigration to make it sound less too. Never a word that a lot of those who have left are educated skilled British heading to US. Australia etc. I am expecting that when my next Council Tax bill arrives I will be told the net figure which takes into account the services used and find that it only costs me fifty quid!

Time to call a spade a spade. The U.K. Sends 13 billion to Brussels and the UK could administrate and use that money more wisely.

[flyeogh]

I wonder if this European Army would have be sent into France to clear the protestors and save disrupting the precious Euro Football 2016.?

Of course not. France has a perfectly good army which when normal law enforcement requires extra help can be called upon. Just as it can be called upon to help in time of crisis like floods.

I think NATO has largely done a great job in Europe but of course is overly influenced by the US. As I said before an EU army would be a way to correct this imbalance.

ps Apologies for duplications above.

[flyeogh]

I wonder if this European Army would have be sent into France to clear the protestors and save disrupting the precious Euro Football 2016.?

Of course not. France has a perfectly good army which when normal law enforcement requires extra help can be called upon. Just as it can be called upon to help in time of crisis like floods.

I think NATO has largely done a great job in Europe but of course is overly influenced by the US. As I said before an EU army would be a way to correct this imbalance.

Olive presumably if you are against an EU army you are against NATO?

ps Apologies for duplications above.

[olive]

I find it breathtaking that any of us could just accept the concept of an EU army. More changes to their mission statement. But of course that is the fundamental problem , no one even those from the Remain camp have a clue as to the ambitions of the EU, there isnt a mission statement. We cannot vote on eu army. It will be a fait accompli nodded through by a majority of dozy MEPs. hey ho someone will quickly point out that it is all perfectly democratic. Doesn't make it right or appropriate unless you want to scrap NATO and hand it over to the EU. That would help with a federal Europe!