Advice on choosing the correct Contracted Power

[championc]

Hi all,

I am the new owner of an apartment in Mojacar. We opened the account in Endesa ourselves but have discovered that we are possibly on too high a Contracted Power rate.

Since we don't expect the apartment to be used except by family and close friends, it's likely to be only used for about 10 weeks at most per year. We are on a rate of 5.75 kwh. I installed an electricity monitor which uploads all data to the Internet so I can see that my total daily power usage recently was around 6.00 kwh. With the apartment now unoccupied, it's using around 1.80 kwh per day.

At 5.75, out bills, with fairly little use, were over eur80 per bimonthly period. My gut feeling is to reduce it now to 2.3 kwh, We have a solar water heating system so the only users of any amount of power at an one time would be the cooker and the kettle.

What would be the effect of setting it to 2.3 when, for only the odd weeks in the year, I'll have days where the total power used over the whole day is 6.0kwh or so ?

[Enrique]

Hi championc,
Welcome to The Forum..................

I hope we are talking on the same Ratings..... Kw. for the Supplied Power.

1) is the Standing Charge reduced if you lower your Potencia........ so out of the circa 40 euro/month is the Standing Charge...

2)" the cooker and the kettle."........what are they rated at.........

3) "reduce it now to 2.3 kwh" .......that's low....... I'm on 3.3Kw Supply......with no electric kettle or electric stove. You will get Power Trip outs.

[gerryh]

Hi all,

.. We are on a rate of 5.75 kwh. I installed an electricity monitor which uploads all data to the Internet so I can see that my total daily power usage recently was around 6.00 kwh. With the apartment now unoccupied, it's using around 1.80 kwh per day.

..

Your daily consumption is not relevant to your contracted power.
What you have contracted for is a maximum of 5.75 kwh at any one time.
There is an online calculator on the Endesa website to help you calculate the minimum power required at any one time.
Also you can calculate the different costs of the variuos contracted power ratings.
As Enrique says, you need to know the power rating of your cooker and kettle and anything else you are likely to use at the same time to estimate your power requirements.

Cheers
Gerry

[championc]

Thanks @enrigue

Yes, I mean the "potencia contratada". Looking at my August to October bill, my usage was a total of 170kwh costing 22.75 whereas the potencia contratada cost 42.27 (all costs before IVA etc.)

[Enrique]

My Standing Charges for 2 month period.........28,39 + IVA (21%) for 3.3Kw

I'm not with Endesa, but understand these lower Potencia Supplies are Regulated so we will all pay similar amounts.

[championc]

Hi all,

.. We are on a rate of 5.75 kwh. I installed an electricity monitor which uploads all data to the Internet so I can see that my total daily power usage recently was around 6.00 kwh. With the apartment now unoccupied, it's using around 1.80 kwh per day.

..

Your daily consumption is not relevant to your contracted power.
What you have contracted for is a maximum of 5.75 kwh at any one time.
There is an online calculator on the Endesa website to help you calculate the minimum power required at any one time.
Also you can calculate the different costs of the variuos contracted power ratings.
As Enrique says, you need to know the power rating of your cooker and kettle and anything else you are likely to use at the same time to estimate your power requirements.

Cheers
Gerry

Thanks @gerryh

I was watching the instantaneous power when the kettle was being boiled and it went up to about 1.8 whereas the "idle" usage is about 0.6. I'l check out the model of my oven and halogen hob and make a decision then.

It seems that I can change it once per year so our signup was in February so I can certainly lower it down now and maybe change higher next Easter.

Many thanks for all your feedback. It's been very helpful.

If I set it for 3.4, is there a bit of flexability with the instantaneous usage vs your contracted power ? Could you peak higher now and again, or for 5 minutes here or there ?

[Enrique]

"If I set it for 3.4, is there a bit of flexability with the instantaneous usage vs your contracted power ? Could you peak higher now and again, or for 5 minutes here or there ?"..............not if you have an ICP fitted as it will cut out at the rated value.

[championc]

Where would this ICP be ? The meters are in a cabinet in each block of apartments, and are locked by apartment management. We have the fuse board in our apartment, with a main trip switch and a line of trip switches, one per circuit. Our meter is a digital one with a pulsing / flashing red light.

[Enrique]

So you may not have a ICP, there has been mentioned on the Forum that the Smart Meters will let you take more , you will need to get spec of meter and Google for info.

Mine is an old system and the Smart meter just replaced the old meter, the ICP is still in place in a sealed box.

As a note the Smart meters in this area aren't so smart, as only 14 out of 100 send info back to the Supplier, so they are still read manually.........

[El Cid]

With only 2.3 you will be tripping the ICP all the time and only saving a very small amount. Endesa charge about €3.5 a month per Kw of potencia.

Don't even think about using the oven and hob at the same time.

5.75 is a good option which should not present any problems.

Sid

[championc]

This is my meter - how smart is it ?

[Enrique]

Good morning,

Came across this info..................

https://www.endesaclientes.com/smart-meter.html

I like the first line............... " Your electricity bill will change forever thanks to technology."..............ever upwards...........

Guess you Googled (there are other Search Engines) CERM1 smart meter................ "contador cerm1 endesa" .......

Some light reading...................

http://www.endesadistribucion.es/es/sma ... igente.pdf

From your Posted Picture I'm guessing those three air-con units aren't for your apartment................and need to be added to your power usage .

[championc]

Well that confirms it. Every bill this year has been actual rather than estimated readings. It was only when I posted the picture that I noticed the telephone icon in the display.

And I totally forgot about the Aircon (just one of the three), and the washing machine too !!!

[El Cid]

And I totally forgot about the Aircon (just one of the three), and the washing machine too !!!

You will definitely need to stay with what you have. Spanish washing machines are nearly always cold fill, so the heating element will be at least 1kw. An A/C unit uses about 1Kw, but it can have a much higher starting load.

Sid

[peteroldracer]

Once you have been plunged into darkness simply by forgetting the washing machine is on and you want a cup of tea a few times you will be glad to pay a few pfennigs to stop it. If you have friends borrowing the apartment and they suffer this them make frantic calls to you about what to do......
You must come from Aberdeen or Lancashire to be worrying about next to nowt!

[TorreDelAguila]

Lots of confusion here with kW and kWh.

Potencia is an agreed contract level for the amount of power you will be able to pull at any instant - before either an ICP (an additional circuit breaker 'up front' on your fuseboard) or your new-style smart/programmable meter trip out - and is measured in kW.
kWh is a measure of usage/power consumed - so 2kW for 3 hours means you've used 6kWh (6 units; 6 x so many cents).

A 3kW potencia for a modern small apartment is asking for trouble, especially if used by folk who aren't regular residents, and familiar with the place.

Your average oven will be approx. 2.2kW
Kettle another 2kW
....So have just these two on together, and you're OTT at a 3kW potencia.
Fridge, tv, lighting, etc etc etc maybe another 0.4kW
Water heater probably 1.2kW
Washing machine or dishwasher another 1.5 to 2kw apiece
Hairdryer 1.2kW-ish

So, 5kW potencia is a working sensible minimum, unless you are determined to exercise huge diligence and discipline.

The way electricity supply in Spain is charged is not the same as the UK. In Spain, the "monthly standing charge" (mainly the potencia charge) can be as large as the charge for units (kWh) consumed, where in the UK the standing charge is comparatively modest.

[markwilding]

In my Office, I have a low level contract which suits me but even in one room putting the heating on then boiling water for a cup of tea trips the fuse.

As people have said, what counts is the amount you are using at any one time so unless you don't mind the occasional trip, when you have too much going on at the same time, I would over compensate.

[wollie]

I did this a few years ago and it worked ok, I worked in electric area and it be tricky if you have no knowledge in this area.
Also my water and cooking hob are gas.
You will need to make a list of all appliances and what each item will draw when on, then decide what items will need be on at the same time.
Because I went through all of this I can tell you what each appliance rating in my place.
Washing machine 2.100kw
Kettle 2.000kw
I have a couple of these oil filled heaters low 600kw med 900kw high 1500kw
Most ovens will have 2 or three elements grill, bottom element and fan element, these are generally about 1000kw each, for the most of time you will not have more than one on at any one time but the oven I am looking at not there is one setting that allows the top and bottom element on at the same time.
From memory I think the hob elements on the hob the large ones be around 1000kw and small are about 600kw.
The lighting is pretty small and in an apartment i be thinking 500 be enough even if all lights on at same time...

hope this helps

[Granite]

When we moved into our house the Potencia Contrada was 2.2kW. We had some work carried out and an electrician changed the ICP from 10A to 20A so our maximum power usage before tripping the ICP was 4.6kW.

About a year ago a new smart meter was fitted and we decided it was time to “regularise” our supply contract. We asked an electrician to sort out the paperwork for a revised contract for a Potencia Contrada of 5.75kW. After 5 months of bills using actual usage readings from the smart meter but the old Potencia Contrada of 2.2kW we have just received our first bill for the revised arrangement. Interestingly the Potencia Contrada on the bill shows 4.948kW. I have yet to discuss this with the electrician (which may be tricky as he speaks Galician!) but I suspect we have a contract that on a monthly basis looks at the actual maximum power that has been used at any time during the billing period and uses that figure to calculate the standing charges for the month in question.

This seems to be explained on the bill under “DETALLE DE LA FACTURA Facturación por potencia contrada:” There are two options for calculating the standing charge either by using the kW contratados or an actual measured peak power usage measured by a “maximetro” (term used on bill) during the billing period. The maximetro appears to be a functionality of the smart meter to record maximum power usage over 15 minute durations.
The new bill shows PVPC 2.0A under DETALLE DE LA FACTURA whereas the old bills showed TUR 2.0.

Any clarification, suggestions or advice would be gratefully received.

[El Cid]

You say there are two options for calculating the kW. Does it show both figures, but use the lower one?

I hope you are right as it would save me a lot of money. I have a 3 phase supply and each phase has a 20 amp ICP which gives me 13.8kW, which is what I am paying for at the moment. The problem is that even after balancing the usage across each phase, it is just not possible to use the full 13.8kW without one of the phases tripping. I doubt that I have ever taken more than 10kW at peak. Using the actual usage would save me at least €200 a year.

Sid