T.I.E

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katy
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Re: T.I.E

Postby katy » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:10 pm

elusive wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:11 pm Its like catch 22. "Sorry ive been living here for years so please give me a TIE " then hacienda says oh you claim to have been living here for years? Lets see what tax you have paid then! Alot of people will incriminate themselves
Like what happened with Windrush?

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fyfin
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Re: T.I.E

Postby fyfin » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:30 pm

Jogger. I relate to that regarding the weather lol
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Re: T.I.E

Postby jogger » Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:30 pm

elusive wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:30 pm Yeah good points. Also if you drive with a uk licence make sure you have registered to change it before the end of the year or at present you will have to take a spanish driving test.
Thanks elusive, that is in hand, i sent all relevant paperwork including the medical to a company that deals with this regularly and they will apply now for the exchange.

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Re: T.I.E

Postby jogger » Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:35 pm

Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:28 pm
You need to see a tax advisor ASAP. If you are here permanently from next year it means that you will be tax resident from January 1st 2021. The tax system here is completely different from both the UK and Ireland. What that means is practically you will be taxed in very different way from what you are used to. This means that you could end up paying much more tax than is necessary. Simple examples ...if you sell your house in the UK whilst you are tax resident in Spain then you could pay capital gains on it at up to 23% or the 25% tax free lump sum on a pension from the UK is taxable here in Spain at up to 48%. Two small example that if you did them before you cameto Spain would totally tax free. I can't stress it strongly enough, get some advice before you become resident and maybe even defer residency depending on your situation.
Thanks Paddy, yes we have that (tax advisor) top of the agenda for when we get back to live here in March. We are already resident, we won't be selling the place in the UK and may or may not rent it out.

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Re: T.I.E

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:58 pm

I think you may have missed my point. You will be tax resident from January 1st even if you arrive in March. There are many more facets than selling your house...that was just one example I gave. There are a multitude of other examples of things you can do before you become resident that will reduce your tax bill. The last thing you want to happen is to find out after you become resident that you could have changed something before you became resident. Get on Google and find someone to speak to on the phone ASAP to make changes in your affairs before January 1st. For example if you have a pension...if it is taxed as income it can be taxed up to 48% but if you change it to an Annuity it can be taxed as low as 2%. Spain is a low tax country as long as you plan correctly..but plan before you become a tax resident on January 1st 2021....not when you arrive here in March that will be too late

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Re: T.I.E

Postby jogger » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:04 pm

Ok got it now, yes i have an occupational pension currently taxed at source. I will get onto it this week when they open up, thanks for that.

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fyfin
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Re: T.I.E

Postby fyfin » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:09 pm

I would only make one point about annuities. When I first moved here I was told by a tax advisor that the tax system in Spain was very favourable with regard to annuities. I was slightly surprised as only purchased annuities (annuities purchased with your own cash e.g. a tax free lump sum from a pension) were treated favourably. The basis was that since it was your own money, you were basically getting your capital back plus an element of interest, so essentially you were only taxed on the assumed interest.
I was dubious as only one of my 4 annuities satisfied that criteria, the rest had some input from the two companies I worked for e.g. one was a transfer from a final salary scheme when I moved to the other company.
I did some checking via the internet and talking to a separate financial advisor in the area and it did seem to be correct, hence my tax returns were completed on that basis and I was very happy to pay no tax.
However, the accountant who did my tax returns (and many others in the area as she was familiar with UK returns as well) disappeared back to the UK and the company changed hands.
The new staff were not familiar with UK annuities so took advice from the local tax office and this was around the time that there was exchange of information between the Spanish and UK system. The local tax office's reaction was to say all annuities should be taxed as pension income!!
They relented on the one annuity that I could prove was purchased by my own money (and I got the tax refund after 1 year) but I was unable to prove that was the same for the other three.
The upshot was, in common with many others I faced fines, interest and of course, back tax of a substantial amount - back 4 years.
I believe that, unlike the UK they will still treat a personal pension annuity favourably if you can show that the contract was between you and the insurance company with no company involvement but you will certainly need the proof as they seem to be a little more with it in our area anyway.
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Re: T.I.E

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:54 pm

Yes you were advised incorrectly...you only get the full annuity treatment if it was your own money that funded the annuity (no contributions from employer etc)

Before I moved to Spain I saw 4 financial advisers/tax abogados ....only one of them gave me advice that was legally correct. One of them didn't even know there was a 60% reduction in rental income for taxation purposes....even when I showed him the KPMG booklet he still doubted I was right.

It is just like going to the car mechanic or hiring a builder...there are cowboys everywhere.

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fyfin
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Re: T.I.E

Postby fyfin » Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:19 pm

Paddy I learned the hard way. I was familiar with UK system having done many tax returns but I kept hearing how good the Spanish system was for annuities. Should have triple checked. Lol
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Re: T.I.E

Postby El Cid » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:13 pm

The tax office personnel frequently give inaccurate advice. A friend who has a UK teachers pension was told quire categorically that his pension was not “exempt” income under the DTA and the only UK pensions that qualified were police pensions.

Annuities have always been difficult. Many Spanish advisors do not seem to understand them, even though they are common in Spain. I’m not surprised that the problem arises with the tax office. However the reality is that you are not required to justify whether the annuity qualifies or not or its source. You just enter the reduced amount on your tax declarations under “rentas vitalicias” and it is taxed as investment income.

If you were unfortunate enough to be subjected to a full blown tax investigation, then you might need to justify it, but that is unlikely and only the previous 4 years would be subject to any extra payments.

I have said it many, times, doing your own declaration is the best way. Getting advice from so called specialists or even the tax office is what tends to create the problems.

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Re: T.I.E

Postby Beachcomber » Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:24 am

I entirely agree. You are going to take far more trouble over making sure your own tax return is correct than some 'overworked, underpaid' bureaucrat or even a 'specialist' tax advisor.

If I have any doubt about anything my first stop is the manual, then the AEAT helpline (calls recorded and archived with other documents for that tax year) then a friend who is a gestor but I make the final decision and if it is wrong it is down to me.

If AEAT challenges anything I appeal against it. My greatest success was a dispute over interest from some preferential shares which led to a climb down by them and payment of a considerable amount of interest.

We have also won several appeals on behalf of other people. I research the laws, do the figures and lay out the facts and my wife presents it all beautifully in absolutely perfect Castellano.

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fyfin
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Re: T.I.E

Postby fyfin » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:36 am

Yes indeed. Regrettably because of indiscretions by this accountant, most of her clients were investigated and there are many angry people in our town who were fined because of it. Had I done it myself I guess they would have simply accepted the figures but when the contacted the HMRC they, of course, supplied the actual P60 figures as they did for her other clients.
To "help" some clients, she put some of their income against their wives who had no income of their own, so instead of a joint return which would have bee the correct option, she falsified the records so that the husband paid no tax. When this was discovered after she left and the company changed hands, this resulted in all clients being investigated and resulted in numerous fines and back tax etc.
I guess I was unlucky in choosing the wrong accountant and not doing my own return. The system now is quite easy and I could do it but at €30 I use a local gestor and check the return, having supplied a spreadsheet and info.
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El Cid
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Re: T.I.E

Postby El Cid » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:17 pm

At last, clear guidance from the EU about getting your TIE if you are a permanent resident. You have 21 months from a no deal.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/brexit/bre...ights_en#spain

Sid

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Re: T.I.E

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:20 pm

Sid, the link is a 'page not found'. I think it has become truncated with a bit in the middle missing.

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Re: T.I.E

Postby pensure1988 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:32 pm

Hi El Cid

I have just tried your link twice and it says "page not found" It might have moved the website says

Thanks

David

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Re: T.I.E

Postby El Cid » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:41 pm

Apparently it is old info as it refers to the situation if there was no withdrawal agreement, but even so, it reiterates the fact that forced renewal is not imminent.

Sid

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Re: T.I.E

Postby Lavanda » Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:42 am

After a considerable lapse in time since I got my own TIE I am helping a friend to apply for hers and, of course, I have forgotten how to do it!

I cannot get the EX23 form to load from anywhere as the site is 'not secure'. I can get the EX17 form but that is not the one she needs. Also, all the links that were so helpfully given on page one of this thread are now defunct. Can anyone provide me with a fully functional link to get the EX23, please, as nothing I am doing is actually working. Thanks, in advance.

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firsttango
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Re: T.I.E

Postby firsttango » Mon Apr 24, 2023 12:15 pm


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Wicksey
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Re: T.I.E

Postby Wicksey » Mon Apr 24, 2023 12:16 pm

Try this
https://www.inclusion.gob.es/documents/ ... imible.pdf

A guide here, more recent than our original posts above. I haven't read it but it may be of help
https://www.inclusion.gob.es/documents/ ... 3051428372

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Re: T.I.E

Postby Lavanda » Mon Apr 24, 2023 1:14 pm

Wow! Thank you firsttango and Wicksey. Impressive and fast responses even by the standards of A.com.
10 out of 10 and I am very grateful.


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