Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

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fyfin
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Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby fyfin » Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:59 pm

If the article in The Olive Press is correct, it appears that masks will be compulsory from next week irrespective of whether social distancing can be observed or not.
This would seem to be a "one size fits all" excuse the pun, and I feel it is completely unnecessary and I can see no logical reason for it. For example in all of Spain we are down to single figures for daily death figures. In our province of Almeria there are no patients in ICU because of Covid-19, a total of only 53 people have died from Covid-19 since it started and yet we have been subjected to a very strict lockdown.

Maybe some will say that is why we have so few cases but I'm not sure I believe it. Surely, if we are having less and less deaths and hospitalisations it's not the time to increase restrictions.

If it is true, and the law is passed, we will have no choice but to do as we are told or risk a fine, and strangely there will be some who welcome it, like the ones who wear a mask in their own car when they are on their own, or walking their dog in the campo with no-one within a mile or more.
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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby El Cid » Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:07 pm

I am glad you are so confident that it has gone away and that we don’t need to take simple precautions to avoid further outbreaks, of which there have been a worrying number in the las few weeks, including Almería.

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020 ... e-may.html
The number of deaths is not a good indicator of the near future, as many patients are still dying after 10 weeks in ICU.

There are currently over 700 people in ICU in Andalucia.

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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby fyfin » Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:42 pm

Well come on then Sid, can you explain the reasoning of wearing masks when you are nowhere near another human being because that is basically what it means. It's total nonsense.
As for going away, it may never go away or it may suddenly just disappear as has happened before, meantime the flu in different forms will continue to kill people every year despite vaccinations.
Projection at the start, of how many deaths we were going to have because of this virus, were greatly exaggerated or over-estimated hence the actions taken by governments. The reality has been nowhere near what was projected.
I have no problem with people wearing masks, I wear them myself when required but I do have a problem with making them mandatory for no good reason. It will not stop unauthorised parties or raves or demonstrations I'm sure so it's only us law abiding citizens who will suffer in this heat when we're out walking the dog etc.
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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby elusive » Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:38 pm

The junta is asking the medical board for its opinion and then there will be a probable vote on it.

I doubt tourist bosses etc are happy. If ppl havnt been put off already they will be now. Will the police inforce it as since the end of the S.O.A ive hardly seen one. Have they all gone on hols or been on the sick since june.

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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby peteroldracer » Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:52 pm

The mask is a visible badge to show that you know what to do. Although with my EPOC I struggle to breathe with a mask I wear one whenever I am around people, and of course always in shopping malls and shops/offices.
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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby Free at Last » Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:56 pm

El Cid wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:07 pm

There are currently over 700 people in ICU in Andalucia.

Sid
Where does that figure come from? 4 days ago there were only 42 people hospitalised in the whole of Andalucia, 8 of those being in ICU.

https://www.granadadigital.es/andalucia ... s-granada/

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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby El Cid » Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:22 pm

OK, on checking, that is the cumulative figure.

http://www.juntadeandalucia.es/institut ... VID19.html

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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby chrissiehope » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:44 pm

From BBC news website:
"Professor Trisha Greenhalgh from Oxford University, who argued for widespread use of face coverings in April, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the vast majority of scientists "are now persuaded by the evidence" that wearing masks in crowded places can reduce transmission.

Asked about the suggestion that face masks benefit others more than the wearer, she said: "Broadly speaking, if I'm wearing a face covering it might protect you 80% and it might protect me 20% or 30%.

"There is a little bit of protection for the person wearing the face coverings but it's not nearly as much as it protects other people from the droplets coming out of the person's mouth."
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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby El Cid » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:28 am

I have always argued that we have been misled by the UK experts who originally said that masks were only effective at protecting other people from your germs. So, how do they explain the fact that all the front line NHS staff have to wear better quality FFP2/3 masks when working very close to the Covid patients? What exactly are they protecting the patient from - he already has the virus. It's difficult not to agree that they are wearing masks to protect themselves. In which case if you wish to protect yourself, you should wear a decent mask.

I live on the Granada coast and many people here are happy to wear masks to protect themselves, especially now the hordes of visitors have arrived. Most people do not realise that this part of the coast has thousands of large holiday apartment blocks, used almost exclusively by the Spanish owners who predominately come from Granada and Madrid, both of which are still active virus hot spots. To put it in perspective, the population of Almuñécar is normally 25,000. For two months in the summer that increases to over 200,000. This area has been virus free for the last three months, no one wants that to change.

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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby elusive » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:49 am

But huge amounts of health workers have caught the virus. So how effective is a mask unless its a gas mask type.

The public even worse when all they are wearing is the basic ones or designer bits of cotton bought in a clothes/chinese shop. As they say it helps when in a confined area as sneezing,coughing, and even talking loudly can cause droplets from someone unknowingly infected from been spread.

We will see if the police start fining ppl for wearing their mask under heir chin when theres no one around them for a 1000 mtrs. And it will just be a case of pull them up as and when. In my local area and also i spent a night in estepona last week and the common factor is alot of the young spanish late teens early 20's werent in ownership or wearing masks. Along with uk tourists i have seen.

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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby fyfin » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:57 am

My initial post referred to one size fits all. Our little town doesn't get many tourists or visitors and we know most people. I'm not going to argue the effectiveness of masks protecting the individual as it depend on the type of mask and how you wear it etc etc. Unless you practice good hygiene as well it could be pointless e.g. you touch something that someone has previously touched who had the virus and then don't wash your hands thoroughly before touching your face.
My point still is that the latest legislation of making them mandatory even when you are nowhere near another human being is silly and pointless.
We walked into town last night with the dogs and sat in a little bar and were joined by 4 friends, across the road in another bar a duo were playing outside. There were around a hundred people sitting on the terrace listening and none of them wearing masks.
I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, but under the new legislation they would have to wear a mask to walk there, but not when they were there drinking in close proximity to others. Obviously tables are 1.5 metres apart but it still seems more risky than walking your dog on your own with no-one in sight.
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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby Free at Last » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:20 am

I agree with you Fyfin. Although the details of Andalucia's new measure have yet to be confirmed, it is likely that masks won't have to be worn on the beach or around hotel swimming pools, nor when eating or drinking at bars and restaurants. All of which are situations in which people are going to spend long periods in fairly close proximity to the same other people. How is that less risky than passing someone momentarily in the street, where it has been stated by scientists that the risk is extremely low? With the tracking and tracing systems in operation, infected people are asked about those they have been in close contact with for at least 15 minutes, not anyone they've walked past. It is nonsense that we will have to wear a mask to walk through tables on the pavement crowded with diners and drinkers not wearing a mask.

The vast majority of the new outbreaks in Andalucia, they tell us, have stemmed from family gatherings of one kind or another. Are people now going to wear masks at those? Of course they're not. One sizeable cluster stemmed from a huge funeral wake following the death of a teenager in Granada province, reportedly attended by 500 people. What were the police doing allowing that to go ahead? Others have come from people working in poor conditions in the agricultural sector, and having to live in even worse conditions. Are they going to do anything to help those people so that the virus doesn't continue to spread amongst and from those workers?

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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby markwilding » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:10 am

The problem is that after these larger family gatherings, people then disperse into the wider community. One of the sources of the first outbreaks was a funeral. The difference this time is that there are more measures to impede the spread.

I was also say that in the context of Spain it is not a one size fits all. Each regional government makes a decision based on local conditions. Sid also has a good point about the way Spanish people move around the country at this time of year. It might be that the not all the family are in the holiday place all the time. In July the kids spend the whole week there but one parent often is often still working and staying in their main residence and just spending the weekend in the holiday home.



One of the biggest critics of masks is Donald Trump and has now started to wear one.
Last edited by markwilding on Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby peteroldracer » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:13 am

“ One of the biggest critics of mask is Donald Trump and has now started to wear one.”
Sadly he is using the wrong sort, as his current one lets him breathe!
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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby Pamela1 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:17 am

Brilliant!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby Lavanda » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:54 pm

I got here from Costakid's thread but a link to here would have been helpful. It has been made compulsory for us to wear masks in the whole of Extremadura because of a few new cases in Badajoz province. We have to wear them all the time. At dinner last night, unless we were actually eating and drinking we had to wear our masks. It was a bit weird as the after-dinner conversations was a bit muffled — or was that the wine?

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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby costakid » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:32 pm

I was on the bus today going from East of Malaga into the city and a guy was wearing a paper mask that was absolutely filthy. That must have been carrying so many germs but he was within the law. I would rather not wear one than put that next to my face.

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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby Lavanda » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:28 pm

Agreed, Costakid. The hot summer weather and the perspiration that makes the masks damp is, surely, a greater health hazard that breathing in the fresh air. However, we don't have options. This is all an amazing exercise in how to make sensible, rational people do insensible irrational things. We all know it's bonkers yet we do it. Mobilising whole societies to act like sheep is not actually that hard, is it?

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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby costakid » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:59 pm

Someone in the UK that wears PPE all day as part of there job told me you should be using 4 or 5 masks a day if your out and about or working all day. At 1 euro a piece most people can't afford that so they just wear the same one every day. How many Spanish pensioners buy more than 1 a week? Has anyone noticed people wearing them on there arms when not in use. It makes a mockery of the Law.

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Re: Masks to be mandatory from next week in Andalucia

Postby markwilding » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:53 pm

Lavanda wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:28 pm
The hot summer weather and the perspiration that makes the masks damp is, surely, a greater health hazard that breathing in the fresh air. However, we don't have options. This is all an amazing exercise in how to make sensible, rational people do insensible irrational things. We all know it's bonkers yet we do it. Mobilising whole societies to act like sheep is not actually that hard, is it? like
Since when has it been irrational to protect yourself from danger?
We do all sorts of uncomfortable things to protect ourselves. I don't particularly like having to put on sticky sun cream or wearing hats etc in the sun, It's much more comfortable not to wear a seat belt in a car or a helmet on bikes and motor bikes etc etc etc. I don't need glasses and I'm not looking forward to the day when it's will be necessary leaving a red mark on the bridge of my nose.

Talking about sheep, What is bonkers is people getting their advice from obscure websites with debunked theories which dangerously erode trust in mainstream science or using opinion as some sort of replacement for scientific evidence.

Having said that, I thought the current rule of only having to wear one in situations where it's not possible to keep at least 1.5 metres was enough and agree with most posters that this is overkill as I would prefer not to wear a mask but it's nowhere near as bad as you are describing even in hot weather. The biggest problems I have is I can't wear my sunglasses as they steam up so I imagine it must be awkward for those with glasses and sometimes speech can sound a little muffled. I certainly don't sweat more.


Btw, you cannot give it to yourself so your own sweat is not as great a health hazard as breathing in air next to someone who has got the virus if you or they are not wearing a mask. However, It is important that they are washed or changed on a regular basis so as to avoid a build up of nasties. It's also really important not to hold them in your hand or at least if you do, not to touch the inside part.
Last edited by markwilding on Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.


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