Gibraltar

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chrissiehope
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Gibraltar

Postby chrissiehope » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:42 pm

Alexandr for President (Squire for PM !)

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog it's too dark to read (Groucho Marx)

olive
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby olive » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:36 pm

Having cake and eating it!

Good solution all round.

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:04 pm

Gibraltar is British
Melilla is Spanish
And Mallorca is German
:lolno: :lolno: :lolno:

olive
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby olive » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:17 pm

You missed Costa del Sol is Russian

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:10 pm

Actually had a good look at what has been published. I can't see where they address Duty Free from Gibraltar. Now it will be a totally open border with no infrastructure.

So either Duty Free is allowed in which case everybody in all of Spain who smokes or drinks will go to Gibraltar once per year and fill the car.

Or Gibraltar equalises the Duty and the prices will go up. Then Gibraltar loses tons of tourists and day trippers.

Given Spain is already trying to restrict cigarettes coming across the border, especially in bulk, I cannot see Duty Free continuing. Also I wonder how the ham sandwich rule will be enforced or will Gibraltar have to follow EU rules on food etc.

katy
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby katy » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:43 pm

Seeing as La Linea is known as the drug capital of Spain you would imagine the Police would have more to do than engage in petty confiscation of ham. The main ones to suffer would be Linenses as the main supermarket stocks all the Spanish goodies, not to mention the regulars who spend their days back and forth handing a carton of baccy to mates. Cruise ships will still call, life will go on. Expats may miss their decent jointed lamb and steak pies but they won’t starve.

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Re: Gibraltar

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:22 pm

So then if you are correct Gibraltar will follow EU rules on meat and cigarette duty and I am sure a ton of other stuff. That sounds like a slippery slope to me.

Additionally the thousands who come across the border every day to buy bulk cigarettes or the immigrants who shop in Morrisons will disappear. Of course some will still come but it will be a large loss to the economy.

It kind of sounds to me Gibraltar had to choose basically an open border and EU rules or a closed border and back to the queues with every car checked and intermittent closed border. I guess they chose closer EU links and more separation from the UK.

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Re: Gibraltar

Postby katy » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:38 pm

Gibraltar dies not rely on ham and duty free, would hit all the high st Indian owned shops but the Rock’s main trade is financial services, shipping and betting. It does not employ 15000 Spanish workers to serve day trippers.

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Re: Gibraltar

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:09 am

Duties made up 27% of the Gibraltar government revenue in the last tax year. Guess which goods they are from.

Since you mentioned Indians (rather than just High Street shops) the Gibraltar government helpfully break down earnings by ethnicity (i have no idea why). The average annual earnings of Indo-Gibraltarians is nearly twice that of the rest of Gibraltarian people and approximately 1.5 times that of immigrants in the UK, thus making people of Indian descent by far the most economically affluent ethnic group in Gibraltar. Do they also own the banks and gambling companies?

It doesn't look like a small part of the economy to me.

Gibraltar chose throwing all that away just to keep the border open. They also chose putting a border between the UK and Gibraltar. That doesn't sound to me like they were inna very strong negotiating position

elusive
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby elusive » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:54 am

Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:22 pm So then if you are correct Gibraltar will follow EU rules on meat and cigarette duty and I am sure a ton of other stuff. That sounds like a slippery slope to me.

Additionally the thousands who come across the border every day to buy bulk cigarettes or the immigrants who shop in Morrisons will disappear. Of course some will still come but it will be a large loss to the economy.

It kind of sounds to me Gibraltar had to choose basically an open border and EU rules or a closed border and back to the queues with every car checked and intermittent closed border. I guess they chose closer EU links and more separation from the UK.
Articles on el pais etc say cigs etc in Gib will have their prices increased to nearer spanish prices. So yes in theory it should put a huge dent in the smuggling operations. If the border totally goes how will they milk fresh meat etc been brought accross into spain be stopped?. I guess there will be spot checks as and when. May see alot of border force jobs going or been transfered back to the U.K?

The electrical duty free equipment i was looking at when last in gib was no cheaper than on either the uk or spain. Is all this vat free shopping a myth cause frankly i never find anything cheaper there.shop wise maybe the indian run shops bring in more income as they sell higher end items interms of prices. Ie electrical goods. Everything else is perfume and standard clothes/gifts shops. I presume its based on shops??as paddy says they dont own the online gambling sites arent solicitors etc or is it more about whats declared!?

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:25 am

There is no food produced in Gibraltar wahtsoever so everything is imported and will be subject to EU rules when imported. In reality what has happened is the border will be moved to the airport and seaports of Gibraltar. Frontex ( EU border guard) officers will be there to police the border of the EU so de facto EU rules will be on the border.

Once the goods are in Gibraltar there will be no checks on them and they will be free to circulate within the EU. So the ham sandwich can be stopped at Gibraltar airport coming from the UK but if you buy a ham sandwich in Morrison in Gibraltar you can bring it to the beach in La Línea for a picnic. However when Morrisons imported the sandwich from the UK it will have been subject to EU rules.

This will be replicated across every sector not just ham sandwiches.

So Gibraltar imports will be subject to EU rules. Rules Gibraltar will have no input into making.

katy
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby katy » Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:40 pm

I think if there had been any problems with Gibraltar supplies the media would have got hold of it. Sure they will be a lot of spats as to what has been agreed. Spain is saying one thing and Gibraltar another. Always been occasional sparks at the border. One day a few years ago we had to collect a friend’s children from school because Spain closed the border and they were shopping. Many expats had to spend the night in a school.
Who knows what will happen, the UK sold the Caribbean Islands down the river when the joined the EU so they could do it to Gibraltar.

Anyway according to this Morrison’s have it organised.

https://www.chronicle.gi/first-uk-food- ... gibraltar/

elusive
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby elusive » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:12 pm

The school thing makes me chuckle. A friend who worked in gib and lived in la linea always commented on how the kids in gib schools were "living" in Gib in order to go to schools there.when in reality none of them were and were just registered at grannies empty flat there. In reality there should be no school run across the border! :shh:

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Re: Gibraltar

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:11 pm

katy wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:40 pm I think if there had been any problems with Gibraltar supplies the media would have got hold of it. Sure they will be a lot of spats as to what has been agreed. Spain is saying one thing and Gibraltar another. Always been occasional sparks at the border. One day a few years ago we had to collect a friend’s children from school because Spain closed the border and they were shopping. Many expats had to spend the night in a school.
Who knows what will happen, the UK sold the Caribbean Islands down the river when the joined the EU so they could do it to Gibraltar.

Anyway according to this Morrison’s have it organised.

https://www.chronicle.gi/first-uk-food- ... gibraltar/
If you want to read media reports about shortages of food products just Google Northern Ireland. However I am not sure that you are getting my point as I never said there would be shortages rather that going forwards the food would be subject to EU rules and the EU will control what can go in to Gibraltar. Gibraltar will not have control of their own food standards. Have you read the EU/UK/Gibraltar agreement and seen what Gibraltar have agreed to?

"The EU requirement for the use of a BCP for this kind of goods from outside the Union means that the processes and procedures involved are more cumbersome and more bureaucratic both on entry into the EU and again on exit,” said a statement from the Government (of Gibraltar)

I wonder who will pay for those processes and procedures.....it can only be the end consumer. Little by little the costs add up and with the fall in income from for example cigarettes sales and the banks that have closed for Gibraltar it's a double whammy. Like you said it seems like the UK are selling Gibraltar down the river and this can only go one way with Spain eventually taking over. It might take a generation but it will happen.

Is that a benefit of Brexit? Will Northern Ireland leave the UK also? Despite various Bexiteers promises, there is already a border down the Irish Sea. What else did the same Brexiteers tell lies about?

katy
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby katy » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:20 pm

These Remoaners do get a little tiresome don’t they. :lol: :lol:

Paddy Pumpkin
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:35 pm

Why do you feel the need to make a personal comment about me again?

I merely asked some questions, which I can now only assume you don't have the answer to?

Unicorn
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby Unicorn » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:15 pm

People going on about 'remoaners' are seriously tiresome.

El Cid
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby El Cid » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:20 pm

I totally agree. Any further use of that word will result in the post being deleted.

Sid

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costakid
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby costakid » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:45 am

Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:35 pm Why do you feel the need to make a personal comment about me again?

I merely asked some questions, which I can now only assume you don't have the answer to?
Dont take it personally. Katy is an old member (2004) but she loves to spice up a debate.

elusive
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Re: Gibraltar

Postby elusive » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:39 am

I think the word is trolling.


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