'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

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chrissiehope
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'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby chrissiehope » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:20 pm

Alexandr for President (Squire for PM !)

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Inside of a dog it's too dark to read (Groucho Marx)

El Cid
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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby El Cid » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:03 pm

A totally misleading article.

He is mainly talking about Brits with holiday homes who can, no longer, spend more than 180 days here in a year and then only 90 days at a time. These people are not expats and they are not leaving as they are not here in the first place!

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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby ashtondav » Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:03 pm

I think the economic impact will be considerable in areas popular with the 6 month “snow birds”. I wouldn’t be surprised if more latitude were allowed for home owners. I guess the Schengen origin of 90 in 180 rather than 180 in 365 lies in the fact that the latter may encourage more foreigners taking jobs. I have no wish to stay over 183 days and become tax resident in Spain. I do want to spend 4 months (not 3)between May and October. As this is not possible my not inconsiderable local expenditure will decline by 25% and be transferred to the uk economy. Now that may be offset by Spaniards staycationing but talking to many in the hospitality industry Brits spend 3 or 4 times more than the spanish.

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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby katy » Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:08 pm

Article came from the Local and source was a property agent. Another paper said worries over health care. :roll:

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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby Pamela1 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:01 pm

I guess a property agent will have knowledge of who is putting properties on the market but i don't understand why another news publisher would cite "Worries over health care" why would they be worried if they have their Ethic or Ghic health cards on them.

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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby El Cid » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:13 pm

I don’t think the Spanish government will be too worried about the loss of income from a relatively small number of Brits who cannot now stay for as long as they like. They are far more concerned about 83 million tourists who come every summer and spend a lot more as they are paying for their accommodation, car hire etc.

As for any changes to the 90 day rule, that is exceedingly unlikely as that is set in stone by the EU and applies to the whole of the rest of the world so a few Brits won’t have much say in it.

I would love to see what % of Brit holiday home owners voted for Brexit.

If they sell their holiday homes they will be quickly bought by high spending Northern Europeans.

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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby daveboy » Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:19 pm

The 90 in 180 day rule is a Schengen rule. Spain could opt out of Schengen and then the oldies who come for 6 months in the winter could continue. I disagree with cid on is point that the Spanish are not concerned about the loss of UK income. They should be concerned because its a proven fact that Brits spend more than most other EU nations on food and drink. You definitely would not survive on French customers who bring there own food with them, drive down and eat at home most of the time.

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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby elusive » Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:31 pm

Holiday makers may spend more than other nationalities in a 2 week holiday but thats very different to those who come for months at a time. They arent going out every night and how many of them dont get much further than their local brit bar. The scandies and other northern europeans are the ones with the big pensions and large incomes and are buying up properties all over the place. Their money will easily replace the brits.

Why they think countries will suddenly change the rules to appease them is beyond me. Loss of freedom of movement works both way unless you are a brit who still thinks they own half the world and are "special " which people seem to think. Spains hardly gonna leave the schengen and put up border crossings to appease a few brits.

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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby ashtondav » Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:49 pm

Brits outnumber Scandies by a huge factor in many places on the coast. And it’s certainly not “a few”. I can count on one finger how many “Scandy” bars there are.

The hospitality sector will be squeeling like pigs in blankets next February and change will happen. I wouldn’t even put it past spain to launch a tax plan to equal Portugal for ex pat retirees. The latter is a dream taxation wise. Beats Monaco!

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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby elusive » Mon Oct 04, 2021 8:33 pm

There maybe more brits but 99.9% of them dont have the income that the scandies do. And there not been many scandie bars is exactly my point.

Portuguese rules are inreleation to becoming a resident. The same kind of levels spain has for E.U.. makes no difference to 90/180

katy
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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby katy » Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:08 pm

I imagine that Brit bars, Indian restaurants etc all contribute to the coasts economy. Scandies, French etc sales are very small. A few Dutch bars on CDS too but much of their clientele are Brits. According to this Benidorm seems to be recovering.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... eased.html

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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby El Cid » Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:10 pm

Exactly my point. The money comes from the 2 week Brit holiday makers in their hundreds of thousands, millions even. The small spending holiday home owners are not significant to the Spanish economy, even if they have convinced themselves it does and the rules are not likely to change.

The vast majority of the real expats that I know that live here as legal residents have absolutely no intention to return to the UK unless health/care problems overtake them. Even then full time care in their home is far cheaper than a UK care home.

As for property sales it’s the Northern Europeans that are buying up the now unused holiday homes - according to local estate agents.

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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby Pamela1 » Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:54 am

Where were all of these holiday makers during the pandemic who spend their fortunes...Spain was still getting my money when i couldn't actually be there, electric standing charges, water and rubbish collection money still going out of my bank account, taxes which still had to be paid. Plumbing repairs and insurance costs..I am just one of many thousands of non resident British owners but of course we are not significant to the Spanish economy.

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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby daveboy » Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:46 am

Totally agree.

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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby daveboy » Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:49 am

elusive wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:31 pm Spains hardly gonna leave the schengen and put up border crossings to appease a few brits.
Just a few?? More like 10s of thousands. You obviously walk around with your eyes shut.

elusive
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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby elusive » Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:24 am

And they are arent going to leave schengen and put up border posts and all the other repercussions of that decision so brits can stay a month or two longer in the winter. Brits can stay for 6 months just not in one go. And as sid said the scandies and northern europeans are buying in droves. The brits that are leaving are being replaced by people who have large incomes so spain isnt losing anything. A brit bar in playa flamenca might suffer but.....

At the end of day no matter how many british holiday owners decide to sell up there will be people who will replace them. Either brits who are quite happy to live under 90/180 or the large northern european market who are buying up in large numbers and have been for the last 5 years or so. This summer has seen its busiest in a long time with all the spanish staycations and the schengen europeans never stopped coming here even during the panadamic. The only difference was the lack of british and irish accents. Some brits are still stuck with this idea of self importance and spain will collapse without them. Things have changed.

elusive
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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby elusive » Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:43 am

Exactly my point. The money comes from the 2 week Brit holiday makers in their hundreds of thousands, millions even. The small spending holiday home owners are not significant to the Spanish economy, even if they have convinced themselves it does and the rules are not likely to change.
---------------
Totally agree. A brit on holiday probably spends more in a week than a "swallow"spends in a month. When you live here you dont go out every night and spend like you are on hols. Same for those who come for months at a time unless they are loaded.

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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby Cádiz » Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:54 am

I understand the 183 day rule but i like is some explain 90 day rule.
I know the max days for UK resident is 90 days in one trip.

My question is will a person have to return to UK for more than 90 days before returning to Spain...
Also do people think the passport control people be checking this...

markwilding
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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby markwilding » Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:22 am

I would imagine they will be checking because that is their job especially as The UK has already confined some Spanish citizens to detention centres. What will be interesting is what the sanctions will be. Maybe a temporary bar from entering Schengen.

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Wicksey
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Re: 'Brit Expats leaving Spain...'

Postby Wicksey » Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:29 am

Cádiz wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:54 am I understand the 183 day rule but i like is some explain 90 day rule.
I know the max days for UK resident is 90 days in one trip.

My question is will a person have to return to UK for more than 90 days before returning to Spain...
Also do people think the passport control people be checking this...
Yes, that is the whole point. The UK is now a third country so Brits are treated like anyone else from outside the EU and can only be here for 90 out of any 180 days. You have to be out of the EU for 90 days before returning, so any trip to an EU country will count and your passport is stamped on entry. This is why you have to be careful if you travel through France to get here as the clock starts ticking the moment you arrive there. If you've just had 90 days here you cannot then have a weekend away in another EU country the next month for example.

I agree with Cid that the holidaymakers spend proportionally more than people here long term. Unless you have a very good income I would think (from the 'snowbirds' I have known) that they live here for the winter to save money on UK expenses like heating bills etc. I would imagine though that the very British areas are noticing it more, but where we are there are mainly Germans and other northern Europeans these days and certainly this summer was full of tourists.


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