Tax Recovery

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elusive
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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby elusive » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:43 pm

Free at Last wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:36 pm
elusive wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:02 pm As your a spanish tax resident you shouldnt be declaring anything in the UK other than your rental income and crown pension which is only taxable in the uk.normally You would have a NT (no tax) tax code as a non tax resident which you get after you send in your double tax form and your certificate of fiscal residency from spain showing you are tax resident here.although thats probably different if you have a crown pension. Then any private pensions etc get paid tax free as you only pay tax on them in Spain.
The process is just the same if you have a crown pension, elusive. I have both a crown pension (which is below the UK personal allowance) and another pension from a former employer. I did as you describe and submitted the double taxation form with the Spanish certificate of fiscal residence, after which HMRC refunded the tax I had paid in the UK on the non-crown pension and gave me an NT tax code to set against that. I get the UK personal allowance to set against my crown pension, and I now get my state pension as well and that is being paid without any tax being deducted from my crown pension.

Neither my husband nor I have submitted any UK tax returns since we started to receive our pensions, and as we don't receive any rental income from the UK there is no requirement for us to do so.
Thanks for clarifying free. I wasnt sure how it worked with crown ones as we just have box standard private standard annunities

elusive
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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby elusive » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:47 pm

Wicksey wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:33 pm From the HMRC site:
"You usually have to pay tax on your UK income even if you’re not a UK resident. Income includes things like:
pension
rental income
savings interest
wages
If you’re eligible for a Personal Allowance you pay Income Tax on your income above that amount. Otherwise, you pay tax on all your income.
The country where you live might tax you on your UK income. If it has a ‘double-taxation agreement’ with the UK, you can claim tax relief in the UK to avoid being taxed twice."

I've not claimed the double taxation thing as we don't pay tax anywhere, so it seems that I still have to declare everything to the UK. It's the CGT I need to look into. I know I will have to pay it here and will be a much higher bill than the UK would charge unfortunately. However, once we're not landlords anymore, I am hoping we can ditch having to do the UK SA returns altogether.
If you havnt gone through the double tax form process then thats why you dont have a NT code then. I suppose if you income is below threasholds then in all purposes it doesnt matter but it may cause confusion down the road as you are still declaring in the uk as if you were a uk tax resident when you arent.

CGT for a non resident in the uk is taken on any gain from around april 2015 approx to when you sell it. Unlike spain which is when you bought-sold it.

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Wicksey
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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby Wicksey » Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:44 pm

I think you're right re the NT tax code elusive, however, they know I'm abroad as they send me the Non-residents pages each year and from what Mark said, he declares everything too. As I say, once I am no longer a non-resident landlord, then hopefully I will no longer have to do any of them.

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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby katy » Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:29 pm

How does it work receiving rental income or paying repairs etc. if not having a UK bank account. Can Tenants just transfer to Spanish bank?

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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby Wicksey » Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:24 am

katy wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:29 pm How does it work receiving rental income or paying repairs etc. if not having a UK bank account. Can Tenants just transfer to Spanish bank?
Presumably they can Katy but then there'll be charges involved I imagine. Best to use something like Wise and have the money paid into there. That's one of the reasons we want to keep our UK account, to pay bills etc but also as we do order things online like Tesco food for my FiL from time to time, and they won't accept a foreign bank account. I also like to bring money over when I choose to, rather than have it just come straight here when the exchange rates may be low.

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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby jogger » Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:52 am

Thanks for all the advice so far, it's much appreciated. I've printed off all the forms. SA100 SA105 and the UK Spain double taxation form. I've contacted the tax advisor asking could she get the certificate from the spanish tax office to attach to the double taxation form but no response , so I'll give it another week and contact the gestor who did our residencies who is good and ask her to take over. I called the hmrc yesterday just really to check what years my form was for as it's confusing with the different dates, so today i will fill out the SA100 and 105.
Thanks again.

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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby Free at Last » Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:26 am

jogger wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:52 am Thanks for all the advice so far, it's much appreciated. I've printed off all the forms. SA100 SA105 and the UK Spain double taxation form. I've contacted the tax advisor asking could she get the certificate from the spanish tax office to attach to the double taxation form but no response , so I'll give it another week and contact the gestor who did our residencies who is good and ask her to take over. I called the hmrc yesterday just really to check what years my form was for as it's confusing with the different dates, so today i will fill out the SA100 and 105.
Thanks again.
I did it myself and it was very easy. The Spain Individual Double Taxation Form comes in two versions, Spanish and English. The questions mirror each other so even if someone does not speak Spanish it is simple to complete if you do the Englilsh version first then copy the information to the Spanish one. Then I sent the Spanish version to the Agencia Tributaria office (I was told to send it to the main provincial office in Málaga as they do not deal with these matters at the local offices) with a short covering letter asking them to send me a Certificado de Residencia Fiscal en España (Convenio). That arrived in the post one week later and I then sent it, together with the English version of the form, to HMRC who refunded the tax paid in the UK several weeks later.

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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby elusive » Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:17 pm

Wicksey wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:24 am
katy wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:29 pm How does it work receiving rental income or paying repairs etc. if not having a UK bank account. Can Tenants just transfer to Spanish bank?
Presumably they can Katy but then there'll be charges involved I imagine. Best to use something like Wise and have the money paid into there. That's one of the reasons we want to keep our UK account, to pay bills etc but also as we do order things online like Tesco food for my FiL from time to time, and they won't accept a foreign bank account. I also like to bring money over when I choose to, rather than have it just come straight here when the exchange rates may be low.
We kept our uk bank accounts as its really a necessity as its not just about paying rent into it. You have billls such as insurances,house, british gas etc that go with owning a property
An agent looks after ours so they send us the money.although we are lucky to have the perfect tennant. But sending money to a euro account would incur charges. If ours were shut we have family and would use theirs. Alot of people use wise amongst others.

HMRC do have a big backlog at the moment going from posts on other sites so it could take a good while to get any refund

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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby Wicksey » Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:26 pm

elusive wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:17 pm We kept our uk bank accounts as its really a necessity as its not just about paying rent into it. You have billls such as insurances,house, british gas etc that go with owning a property
An agent looks after ours so they send us the money.although we are lucky to have the perfect tennant. But sending money to a euro account would incur charges. If ours were shut we have family and would use theirs. Alot of people use wise amongst others.
Why British Gas? We don't pay any utilities etc as that's all down to the tenants and the accounts are in their names. We only pay for the house insurance and any repairs although they are rare (the tenants pay for day to day stuff and the redecorating that they do), and gas certificate. Our tenants are brilliant too which is why we ditched the agent after the first year. Saved us a fair bit over the years, although we have never put the rent up, so that saving has compensated a bit.

I would just change the address and keep the bank account going. Not very easy to have access to a relative's account. Also, if a tax rebate come by cheque which we have had in the past, it would have to be paid into your named account.

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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby jogger » Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:57 pm

Free at Last wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:26 am
jogger wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:52 am Thanks for all the advice so far, it's much appreciated. I've printed off all the forms. SA100 SA105 and the UK Spain double taxation form. I've contacted the tax advisor asking could she get the certificate from the spanish tax office to attach to the double taxation form but no response , so I'll give it another week and contact the gestor who did our residencies who is good and ask her to take over. I called the hmrc yesterday just really to check what years my form was for as it's confusing with the different dates, so today i will fill out the SA100 and 105.
Thanks again.
I did it myself and it was very easy. The Spain Individual Double Taxation Form comes in two versions, Spanish and English. The questions mirror each other so even if someone does not speak Spanish it is simple to complete if you do the Englilsh version first then copy the information to the Spanish one. Then I sent the Spanish version to the Agencia Tributaria office (I was told to send it to the main provincial office in Málaga as they do not deal with these matters at the local offices) with a short covering letter asking them to send me a Certificado de Residencia Fiscal en España (Convenio). That arrived in the post one week later and I then sent it, together with the English version of the form, to HMRC who refunded the tax paid in the UK several weeks later.
Hi FAL
Thanks for that, we heard back today from the tax advisor , she said she could do it for 60€ however she said she hasn't had much sucess online and has advised we could make an appointment at the tax office in Malaga, bring along an historical padron , bills to prove we were in the house and apparently they will issue it. However, although we are learning Spanish we don't think we would be confident enough to do it plus i don't even know what an historical padron is. Your way sounds much easier, I'm wondering has it changed since you done it. It's all a bit of a conundrum.

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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby Free at Last » Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:22 pm

jogger wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:57 pm
Hi FAL
Thanks for that, we heard back today from the tax advisor , she said she could do it for 60€ however she said she hasn't had much sucess online and has advised we could make an appointment at the tax office in Malaga, bring along an historical padron , bills to prove we were in the house and apparently they will issue it. However, although we are learning Spanish we don't think we would be confident enough to do it plus i don't even know what an historical padron is. Your way sounds much easier, I'm wondering has it changed since you done it. It's all a bit of a conundrum.
I did in fact make an appointment at the provincial tax office in Málaga. When I got there, the man I saw said I did not need an appointment, I should just give the form and my letter in at the Registro General desk. So I did that, and got a stamped receipt for it, and as I said earlier the certificate arrived in the post a week later. There was very little speaking Spanish involved, I assure you! I just said I wanted to obtain a Certificado de Residencia Fiscal en España (Convenio) and shoved the papers across the desk. The only thing that might have been different in my case is that I had submitted tax returns for a few years in Spain (at least 3 I think), not just for one. I wasn't asked for a historical padrón nor any bills.

There are two different kinds of fiscal residence certificate. It is important that you ask for the right one, the Certificado de Residencia Fiscal en España (Convenio). The ordinary Certificado de Residencia Fiscal en España is for other purposes, eg if a resident is selling a property so that they don't have the 3% retention in respect of CGT applied.

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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby jogger » Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:49 pm

Free at Last wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:26 am
jogger wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:52 am Thanks for all the advice so far, it's much appreciated. I've printed off all the forms. SA100 SA105 and the UK Spain double taxation form. I've contacted the tax advisor asking could she get the certificate from the spanish tax office to attach to the double taxation form but no response , so I'll give it another week and contact the gestor who did our residencies who is good and ask her to take over. I called the hmrc yesterday just really to check what years my form was for as it's confusing with the different dates, so today i will fill out the SA100 and 105.
Thanks again.
I did it myself and it was very easy. The Spain Individual Double Taxation Form comes in two versions, Spanish and English. The questions mirror each other so even if someone does not speak Spanish it is simple to complete if you do the Englilsh version first then copy the information to the Spanish one. Then I sent the Spanish version to the Agencia Tributaria office (I was told to send it to the main provincial office in Málaga as they do not deal with these matters at the local offices) with a short covering letter asking them to send me a Certificado de Residencia Fiscal en España (Convenio). That arrived in the post one week later and I then sent it, together with the English version of the form, to HMRC who refunded the tax paid in the UK several weeks later.
FAL, sorry to bother you but where did you get the two forms from in both English and Spanish?

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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby Free at Last » Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:42 pm

jogger wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:49 pm

FAL, sorry to bother you but where did you get the two forms from in both English and Spanish?
I downloaded it from the HMRC website, but when I look at it now there is only an English version of it there so maybe they HAVE changed it. Every time they alter something they seem to make it more complicated and difficult for people, instead of easier. I can still see the ones I used in links given in some websites when I Google for it, but obviously best not to use them if they are not the official version any more.

elusive
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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby elusive » Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:39 pm

Wicksey wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:26 pm
elusive wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:17 pm We kept our uk bank accounts as its really a necessity as its not just about paying rent into it. You have billls such as insurances,house, british gas etc that go with owning a property
An agent looks after ours so they send us the money.although we are lucky to have the perfect tennant. But sending money to a euro account would incur charges. If ours were shut we have family and would use theirs. Alot of people use wise amongst others.

Why British Gas? We don't pay any utilities etc as that's all down to the tenants and the accounts are in their names. We only pay for the house insurance and any repairs although they are rare (the tenants pay for day to day stuff and the redecorating that they do), and gas certificate. Our tenants are brilliant too which is why we ditched the agent after the first year. Saved us a fair bit over the years, although we have never put the rent up, so that saving has compensated a bit.

I would just change the address and keep the bank account going. Not very easy to have access to a relative's account. Also, if a tax rebate come by cheque which we have had in the past, it would have to be paid into your named account.
Sorry i ment british gas for the service plan/insurance for the boiler,heating etc. Not bills

Our bank has no issues with overseas address so theres no problem there just thinking out loud if there was Some banks dont allow you to use someone's else's address as its against their terms and conditions to be a uk resident if you have an account with them

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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby Wicksey » Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:57 am

I see what you mean elusive. At the moment there is no problem keeping our UK bank account in our Spanish address. If we ever need to change it to a UK one in order to keep it though I am hardly likely to tell them it is an address of a family member. Many people keep bank accounts and other things registered to a UK family member and that's the way I would have to go if necessary.

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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby barnsley85 » Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:20 pm

Free at Last wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:22 pm
jogger wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:57 pm
Hi,

Could you please tell me the address of the tax office in Malaga that you went to?

I need to do the same but it seems there are so many offices.

Thanks,
Mike


I did in fact make an appointment at the provincial tax office in Málaga. When I got there, the man I saw said I did not need an appointment, I should just give the form and my letter in at the Registro General desk. So I did that, and got a stamped receipt for it, and as I said earlier the certificate arrived in the post a week later. There was very little speaking Spanish involved, I assure you! I just said I wanted to obtain a Certificado de Residencia Fiscal en España (Convenio) and shoved the papers across the desk. The only thing that might have been different in my case is that I had submitted tax returns for a few years in Spain (at least 3 I think), not just for one. I wasn't asked for a historical padrón nor any bills.

There are two different kinds of fiscal residence certificate. It is important that you ask for the right one, the Certificado de Residencia Fiscal en España (Convenio). The ordinary Certificado de Residencia Fiscal en España is for other purposes, eg if a resident is selling a property so that they don't have the 3% retention in respect of CGT applied.

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Re: Tax Recovery

Postby jogger » Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:33 am

Just an update on an old thread. I finally got my fiscal residencia certificado convenio , after over 3 years of trying, involving, gestoria spanish accs company, numerous visits to tax offices both in Marbella and Malaga. At Marbella, the little chap told me I was not fiscal resident, I showed my green residencia card and I said I've paid tax the last 2 tax years but he pointed to the computer and said 'no'. It was definitely a "computer says no moment" Then in October last year I was issued one in Malaga after we seen a guy at his desk who quickly told us to go sit in the waiting room again, then the security guard wondered why we hadn't been seen, we told him what happened and a lady got us and completed the process, except the cert issued was between Spain and Ireland, I'm irish but worked in the UK. So off down to Marbella, they faxed paperwork to Malaga telling us 2 weeks, 'mas o menos' On Feb 1st we contacted or gestor again and she managed to get it and email it to us. The initial cause of the problem was the town hall in our village changed the name of our street. What a palava. We have spoken to HMRC and DHL'd the certificate. We nearly gave up and were about to put the house on the market due to the stress of it all. Who said retire early and de-stress (distress). Computer says no. I'll not say what i wanted to do with his computer. Anyway, there you go.😂


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