PLOT OF LAND WITH RUIN

[El Cid]

Do you really think you can trust the municipal architect any more?

The Junta is the one deciding what it legal or illegal now - look at the Vera case.

There have been so many cases where the local authority has granted "legal" licences that are ultimately revoked that I would only consider taking advice from the planners at the Delegacion Provincial of the Junta.

No one else has the ultimate authority to approve licences for building or renovating on rustic land.

Sid

[wendyakemp]

Peter,
for once I totally agree with you. I originally thought, ooh a nice ruin in the country but the reality is not often like that at all. I also thought of the security aspect as I am not here all of the time. I bought in a village so that we can try to integrate.
The area I bought in also has a complete embargo on rural land for the next three years but agents are still selling them as 'approved' building plots.

[julian]

what do you mean by "a complete embargo on rural land"?

[hillybilly]

Probably that no permission is being given for the time being by that particular administration for any new building/reform(?) on any rural land under their jurisdiction?

[peteroldracer]

From a practical point of view, if you live in a remote spot, what do you do about shopping when you are ill? How do you handle a car breakdown, or even when it is off the road for a service? Are you easy to find for an ambulance, and if you fell and could not reach a phone, who would realise that you were not around, and after how long? You may be young, fit and forties/fifties, but you will get older and more infirm - in our village there are bread vans, veg vans, fish vans and so on, so if we become unable to drive we can survive easily, and if our shutters are not opened on a morning, people start to wonder if we are OK. How will you get deliveries of wood, or gas bottles?
Given that it can take years for a house to sell here, unless you are wealthy you cannot just up sticks and move to somewhere more suitable for less-able folk, so your decisions now can have serious affects on your future life.
I am not being doom and gloom, just realistic!

[gavilan]

it is not that bad in el campo Peter! one gets very good at giving directions in Spanish and have had no problem with any deliveries to date ... and did have to ring the emergency ambulance once in the early hours of the morning when OH was very ill ... and the car mechanic is very obliging: he came here when the car refused to start ... my worst moment was having to break in to my own house because I had stupidly not left a spare key hidden outside somewhere!

[julian]

glad to hear you are not being gloom and doom, wouldn´t like to catch you when you were, I guess on a bad day you could have included the possibility of a meteorite crashing through your roof in the campo.

[Colinm]

Peter, Sorry for your/your Partner's loss.
Noticed that you had been quiet for a while!



Julian - I believe it is reality, not doom and gloom. I live in the countryside in Ireland and could pass days without contact or sight of other humans. Part of the reason we bought a town house in Spain was to be close to the village and other humans, when retirement comes. Recently a very close relative of my wifes has been extremely ill, unable to go out, unable to feed himself and incontinent. How could this be managed in a 'ruin in the campo'?

By the way, I hear that one of the american satelites is going to crash to earth soon, and they don't know where? If I told you it was going to land in Spain, and probably crash into a reformed campo casa, then that would be doom and gloom

[peteroldracer]

Colinm - thankyou for your kind thoughts.
Gavilan - it is perhaps easier for you to survive in the campo as you have made the effort to learn the language - I still would not want to be a long way from other people and services.
I am constantly surprised and saddened at how many Brits I meet who have been coming here a long time, and/or fully intend to come and live here but have made absolutely no effort to start learning Spanish before they move, or find out about cars, tax, licences.......at least most of the members here are doing their best to plan, and get the best from their new home.
I am just trying to point out some things that just may not have occurred to some folk - if they have already weighed these things up, then fine.

[sacromonte]

Anyone out there know any different. Please advise. I don't think anyone understands what is going on and if the wrong message is being sent out from town halls to estate agents, then it's going to affect everyone in my position. .

From what you say it does seem that, not surprisingly, no one seems to have a definitive answer on anything to do with building in the campo - ruins or otherwise.

If you finally get to the point where you have consulted enough "experts" and feel comforable in going ahead, remember the Priors in Vera, who have just had an "apparently" legal house demolished by the Junta who seem to make up the rules as they go along and even apply them retrospectively.

I can say no more than to restate what I said in my last post.

"My advice would be to not even think about renovating or building on rustic land in Andalucia for the foreseeable future. If you do you are taking a huge risk and could easily lose all the money that you put into the project. "

Sid

I don't know much about the Priors except what I read in the papers, but there is a difference I think - their property was a new build - as said before I have 8 acres, 200sqm ruin in the middle of nowhere and according to the law (ha ha) see below, it says I have the right to reform. All very well - but things seem to change from day to day and the town halls don't seem to know what they are doing, or allowed to do. Until recently they were giving licences for almacens - shed/workshop - and getting around it that way - bit difficult to explain why there's a swimming pool, four wheel drive, washing lines and patios. I think that has stopped (quite rightly). It's a complete nightmare isn't it. Anyone out there who has an abogado who can confirm what my abogado printed out for me? Or has the law changed yet again. And how come when I visited my land, despite all these restrictions on new builds, I look down the valley and see six new houses dotted about on so-called protected land?

Whatever the case, the same norm indicates that the legal declaration of ruin shall always grant that the owner can choose between demolition and rehabilitation

[Jool]

I am no solicitor but in your case you need to get ALL your permission from the Junta de Andalucia and not trust the town hall, whatever route you choose. This may take up to 4 years to obtain but only then will you know for sure. You can liaise with the Junta yourself or better still get an Architect who has worked with them before to do this for you.

My understanding is that provided the ruin was registered and existed on paper as well before then you can get an Architect to assess the structural safety of the property and provide you with a report. Of course you can have a say in this process without expecting the architect (whom you are paying) to lie for you. If the architect recommends re-build then this is the approved and safe route. However there are newish rules that are being followed stating that any ruin must have a roof or part of a roof and not just be a pile of stones or a couple of walls alone to qualify for renovation or re-build licence.

Ignore the buildings going up around you, they will have hassle in future if built on protected land and quite rightly so....

Good luck

[sacromonte]

These newish rules regarding a roof et., can you tell me where they originate - doesn't appear in my copy of the regulations - I'd like to know and so would my lawyer where this roof stuff is coming from. Can you advise?

[metalmonkey]

Hi

we have just (last week) received permission to build a very small Casa Rural on a ruin on rustic land ....we have been following the process for nearly two years. The best advice I could give anyone is:

don't rely on your town hall for permission, they can give it but it means nothing
you MUST get permission from the Junta

Our town hall (Iznajar) have been brilliant and we have worked with them 100% sometimes very frustrating, sometime we were loosing the will to live .....but without their support it would have been impossible.
We have also had to apply to be on the tourism register, take out residency (which we wanted to do anyway) get all permission from Obras Publicas, go in the official bulleting in Cordoba twice for a period of 300 days incase of objection. Have full visado architects plans...the list seems endless but we've done it and now feel that we can sleep at night.

Lots of people around us are running illegal B&Bs and Casa Rurals but we know that our town Hall is now starting to insist of opening licences which can take up to 12 months to get. Also new law came into force on January 21st about opening licences.

I believe that you can only build on rustic land:
if it has a ruin
if you are running some kind of tourism project


Would we have done our place if we had known the problems we would face...no it's been very difficult


good luck

[julian]

"I believe that you can only build on rustic land:
if it has a ruin
if you are running some kind of tourism project "

and agricultural projects, which after all, is what the rural land was originally used for !