Gas bottles empty ?

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curatokid
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Gas bottles empty ?

Postby curatokid » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:46 pm

Whenever I change my gas bottle because the flame has gone out there seems to be quite a lot of liquid still in the cylinder, is this right and how can I get to use whats left ?

chrisuk
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Postby chrisuk » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:50 pm

Is it liquid or water... if it is a liquid there maybe a problem with your pressure regulator or you are using the wrong gas for the appliance used causing it to flame out

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Postby Beachcomber » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:06 pm

This may be due to a pressure drop as the appliance tries to use the last of the gas. If you turn it off and wait a few minutes it will probably light again and stay on for a short time.

This is particularly noticeable with my gas generator. As the level of gas in the cylinder drops the generator starts to 'hunt' ie decreasing and increasing in speed. When I change the cylinder it is fine but if I then put the old cylinder on my gas fire it lasts for several more days because it does not try to draw the gas at such a high rate.

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spanish_lad
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Postby spanish_lad » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:18 pm

i wonder where the "pick up" is inside the bottle, ie, would it carry on working ok if you laid the bottle on its side perhaps ? i know they are "meant" to stay upright, but is that an "ease of use" issue rather than a saftey one ?
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Faire d'Income
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Postby Faire d'Income » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:27 pm

The cylinders you are referring to are vapour offtake so there is no dip tube which you would find on a liquid offtake cylinder such as for FLT use. The gas exits the the cylinder at the neck so if you were to invert it or try to use it horizontally you would more than likely get 'heavy ends' going into the appliance which at the very least will block it up, if not cause damage.

The problem with Spanish LPG is that they tend to use predominantly butane, which has a boiling point of around zero so because the gas boils off to produce a vapour as the temperature decreases so does it's ability to boil off, thus no vapour is produced.

If you stand the cylinder in a bucket of warm water this may prolong things a bit but DO NOT be tempted to introduce a naked flame to the cylinder in an attempt to warm it up and extract gas - many people have died this way.

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spanish_lad
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Postby spanish_lad » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:33 am

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh gotcha :) so thats why they leave gas bottles in the sun then, an outside heater works better afterall :)
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Nikvin
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Postby Nikvin » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:05 am

I always put the new bottle on the boiler as that seems to need the pressure, and the cooker needs it too especially if all 5 rings and oven going.

As the boittle gets low, give it a shake and it improves matters.

The gas fires seem to work quite well when little gas is left, but a quick shake of the canister does help get the last bit out!

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costakid
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Postby costakid » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:44 am

we use the orange bottles. Our Spanish neighbours always lay theres on the side to get the last drop out. i have started doing this and have had no problems.

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country boy
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Postby country boy » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:20 am

:( Basically Spanish LPG is pretty lethargic, in commercial undertakings and on vehicles it is better to use propane than butane, as propane will continue to "gas" at lower temperatures, also propane is about a euro cheaper...UNFORTUNATELY..it needs to work at a higher pressure but the Spanish haven't worked that one out yet, so they use the same bottle pressure and regulators for both :? which totally negates the advantages of one over 'tother. However Propano is well worth considering for Agua Caliente and Estuffa's, it burns fine on low take up units and as I say is cheaper. Do not use it in the Kitchen however....not suitable! Repsol Propano cylinders have a black band sprayed round them ,Cepsa it says Propano on them>
In UK of course, Propane equipment is Orange and Butane is blue, Cylinders, hoses and regulators..seems quite simple I would have thought :lol:

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spanish_lad
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Postby spanish_lad » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:26 pm

and do you hve any idea where to buy propane cylinders around alhaurin ?
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Faire d'Income
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Postby Faire d'Income » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:33 pm

Try ringing the Repsol helpline: 901 100 100 for your nearest dealer to Alhaurin.

Country Boy - why don't you think propane is suitable for kitchen use?

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country boy
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Postby country boy » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:44 pm

:? Our local Ferreteria sells both makes and types, and the Butanero's carry both sorts.

The reason why Propano is not suitable for cocinas is shrouded in mystery for me....all I can say is that the Butanero told me so; when I questioned him I got a Spanish shrug. My Spanish is pretty limited so I was unable to delve further into it. Perhaps it doesn't have the calorific value required for cooking, or perhaps it's just an old wives tale. If anyone with good Spanish could find out I'd love to know :?

Kelly4
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Postby Kelly4 » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:53 pm

Apart from the obvious (waiting for the gas to run out and being left with none) how is a person to tell that the gas is running low (orange bottles). We have a spare but my mum's tiny house doesn't have room for one, so it's hard to tell when to change it. I appreciate that the weight of the bottle gives some indication, but there must be a better way?!

Cheers,
Kelly

frank
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Postby frank » Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:25 pm

country boy wrote::? Our local Ferreteria sells both makes and types, and the Butanero's carry both sorts.

The reason why Propano is not suitable for cocinas is shrouded in mystery for me....all I can say is that the Butanero told me so; when I questioned him I got a Spanish shrug. My Spanish is pretty limited so I was unable to delve further into it. Perhaps it doesn't have the calorific value required for cooking, or perhaps it's just an old wives tale. If anyone with good Spanish could find out I'd love to know :?

It would seem that propane is ertainly suitable for kitchens, but more so for large or industrial kitchens. It's basically saying although they have similar uses, it's use is determined by the " boiling point necessary". It also says propane is better where used outside,(stored outside?) where the teperature can go below zero.

# El butano y el propano, aún teniendo usos muy similares, se emplean de forma diferente dependiendo del punto de ebullición necesario.
# Se empleará el butano cuando se trate de un consumo reducido como puede ser la utilización doméstica.
# Para usos industriales y domésticos de mayor consumo (cocina, agua caliente sanitaria, calefacción) y utilización a la intemperie -donde la temperatura puede bajar por debajo de los cero grados-, se aconseja emplear propano.
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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Faire d'Income
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Postby Faire d'Income » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:56 pm

Kelly4 wrote:Apart from the obvious (waiting for the gas to run out and being left with none) how is a person to tell that the gas is running low...
There is in the UK - we have gauges fitted to our cylinders but other than by weighing it and comparing it to the tare weight of the cylinder, you will find it difficult in Spain.

As for the propano issue, there is no reason why you can't use propane in a kitchen (as we do in the UK) provided the cooker has the correct jetting but I would have thought that the boiler would have been a better bet.

chrisuk
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Postby chrisuk » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:07 pm

The only difference in the two from what I have found is one freezes quicker than the other

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spanish_lad
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Postby spanish_lad » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:56 pm

chrisuk wrote:The only difference in the two from what I have found is one freezes quicker than the other
which freezes faster ? (i could look at chemistry websites and find out, but a. i cant b bothered and b. it seems that u know.. so which is it ?

i´ve found a supplier of propane in alhaurin and will ask a price
next time i´m there.

as for weighing the cylinders??? dont be silly. just keep a spare or bring one to her house every two week etc whenever she runs out. does she only have 1 for her cooker and hot water ?
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nevada smith

Postby nevada smith » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:40 pm

for heaven's sake -
just type 'propane butane' in google and check it out...
e.g. propane functions down to -42 C which makes it more effecient than
butane which cuts out at 0 C -
'no', do not... do not use butane bottles on their sides -
it took me about a week to figure out how long a bottle of butane lasts
when used for heating and
i keep spares in the maintenance room anyway...
as for cooking - we've been using propane with our philips whirlpool oven, stove or whatever for over 15 years... and heating with a romantic little jotul just for fun...


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