Personal Security

Do you have a query on how to get things done in Andalucia, where to find things, who to call? Find out by posting and hear about others experiences.

I feel safer in Andalucia

Yes
25
81%
No
6
19%
 
Total votes: 31

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meseta
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Personal Security

Postby meseta » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:54 am

Following Kevin77's thread about criminals, I think it would be interesting to hear how folks feel about their own security. Do you feel safer here in Andalucia than where you lived before ?

spanish hopes

Postby spanish hopes » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:15 am

What is more important to me is that my wife feels safer, and is prepared to go out on an evening alone.
The only abuse we ever get from youngsters is from the british children of ex-pats who have been brought up in the knowledge that there is not a price to pay for bad behaviour. They have been led to believe that they are untouchable whatever they do.

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Postby Beachcomber » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:24 am

Yes, I agree 100% with Spanish Hopes. Nothing more to add, really.

Kelly4
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Postby Kelly4 » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:04 pm

I feel 100% safer in terms of violent crime and burglary. And my kids can actually play out alone (as long as they bring a walkie taklie...once a Londoner, always a Londoner). But this only extends to the boundaries of my very small village. I don't feel any safer along the coast than I did in London but that could be because it's not such a familiar environment.

That said, I feel very very lucky each time I arrive home alive after driving on the Spanish roads. So, I'm not sure we're necessarily safer here. There is generally (to me) a somewhat cavalier attitude towards safety here.

Kelly

Moving Soon
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Postby Moving Soon » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:34 pm

Strangely enough, despite having experienced a burglary at my Spanish home I do feel safer when in Andalucia than I do in the UK.

I have also had one burglary and one attempted breakin at my house in England - I don't have the impression that burglaries are any more common in Andalucia than in UK, even in rural areas of UK this happens - just take the Tony Martin case as an example! In England the police issue a crime number for insurance purposes and do nothing else in my experience. In Spain the police sent a fingerprint officer round straight away and made enquiries of the neighbours, although without success. Word on the street was that everyone 'knew' who was responsible but wouldn't say anything to the police for fear of reprisals as the alleged culprits were junkies who had supposedly visited the old lady who lives next door and threatened her with violence if she told the police anything. There were a spate of burglaries around the same time, involving houses occupied by permanent residents both Spanish and English, so it didn't seem we had been targeted as absentee owners which I was worried about when it first happened. So although it was heartbreaking and a great shock to arrive for a holiday and find my home had been turned over, I have got over it and won't let it spoil my plans to move over permanently as soon as I possibly can. Unfortunately the social problems created by hard drug abuse seem to be worldwide now and you would have to go somewhere very remote not to be affected by them.

As far as personal safety is concerned I do feel much safer in Andalucia and am happy to go around even late at night on my own which I wouldn't do in UK. I am not a person who is easily intimidated and once hit a teenager who attempted to snatch my handbag in Manchester city centre when on my way home after working late at about 9.00 pm, but my brother-in-law was violently assaulted for no reason after attending a concert in Manchester, my stepson has been assaulted twice in the town where he lives and many aquaintances have been mugged for money, mobile phones etc. I don't see children playing in the street in UK any more as they do all the time in Spain (although the noise can be a nuisance it is nice that parents feel they are safe enough to allow this) and I don't feel intimidated walking past groups of teenagers gathered on street corners in Spain as they don't tend to be swigging alcohol and abusing passers by. The worst they seeem to get up to is spraying graffiti which is a nuisance but has to be better than terrorising the neighbourhood, especially the elderly, as often happens in the UK if the press reports around the granting of ASBOs are to be believed.

I also don't see large gangs of extremely drunk people reeling around the streets in the early hours of the morning and getting into fights in Spain - although no doubt I would if I visited resorts such as Torremolinos or Fuerengirola - but they wouldn't be Spanish! Go through the streets of any British city or fair sized town on a Friday or Saturday night and it looks line a scene that could have been painted by Hogarth.

spanish hopes

Postby spanish hopes » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:50 pm

It amazes me the amount of British parents who allow their kids to drink in Spain. Often to be seen are obviously underage teens sipping the alcopops provided by Mum and Dad.
The same parents would probably never dream of buying the drinks in a pub in the UK.
They brag about how well their kids are integrating when reality of that integration is often no more than their 13 or 14 year old daughter swapping spit with some eager young spaniard in the communal gardens of some development whilst Mum and Dad hammer the G+T's in their local. The only word of spanish their daughters have learned is 'Si'.
The sons aren't so lucky, they usually can't compete with the young latins in the romance stakes so have to integrate by showing their new friends how clever they are vandalising gardens, cars and other property.

Moving Soon
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Postby Moving Soon » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:01 pm

Exactly - it's the British who are exporting their undesirable behaviour to Spain. I am embarrassed to be British sometimes when I see how my fellow countrymen (and women) conduct themselves abroad - and not only in Spain. God knows what the indigenous population must think of us.

Why is it that people of almost every nation seem to be able to go out and have an enoyable time without getting hammered but many (not all) British people just want to drink until they fall over?

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Postby ian.wilson » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:46 pm

100%, especially after living on the East London Essex border. I`ts feels liek a war zone everytime I go back. It`s got to the stage where hopefully I will never go back (family funerals are the only exception now).
Oh Yes! another day in paradise!

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Postby katy » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:56 pm

Mainly agree but its not all black and white, Spain is changing and if you read the spanish papers there are many drink associated stabbings and fights among spanish youth. plaza mayor has had its fair share of problems at the weekend and in recent years a lot of fiestas have been marred by fights and stabbings.

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Postby Jade138 » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:41 pm

The safest country I have lived in, thus far, is in Abu Dhabi (U.A.E).
Lived there for nearly five years and have yet to hear about a mugging
case.
The Islamic religion does not take kindly to mugging/robbery and the law does not condone driving under the influence of alcohol. The penalties are very severe.

I shudder about the suicidal driving style though. 8)
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Postby mhic » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:51 pm

As far as I know there has only been one crime to speak of in our village in the three years we have lived here. Like Ian we also lived on the E London/Essex borders and there were break in's every week in our street.

The local police proved to be usless, never enough manpower was their excuse every time someone complained but they always managed to have 3 or more manning speed traps daily.

In England I would not let my grandkids play in the street un-supervised but here they play out with the local kids till 10.30pm most nights when they come to stay.

Never worried about crowds of teenagers here but back in England there were always rows with them.

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Postby kevin77 » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:47 pm

As far as I know there has only been one crime to speak of in our village in the three years
Yes mhic, but you live in a village - population 3400 according to google, not the outskirts of the capital city. Its bound to be different from Essex/ East London. Its the difference between the Sweeney and Heartbeat in easy to understand Sky TV terms. Thats why the question 'are you safer in Andalucia' is not specific enough. Danes original comments (not mine) were about the 'new breed' of south american or east european criminals operating in Sotogrande etc. bringing a demand for private security companies, what most people are posting here is stuff about anti social behaviour by teenagers.
My questions would be: 1) Should ASBOs now be extended to cover the CDS? yes/no/dont care. 2) Should rich people in Sotogrande pay for their own security, they probably didnt earn their cash anyway. yes/no/depends.

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meseta
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Postby meseta » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:15 pm

The question was not "'are you safer in Andalucia" but " I feel safer in Andalucia, yes/no "

It may be interesting to see the response to the questions you suggest.

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Postby Beachcomber » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:32 pm

I think it would be fair to say that we feel safer in Andalucía despite the feeble efforts of the law enforcement agencies not because of them.

I have the keys for three rural properties which are protected by an alarm connected to a central station and when one of these alarms goes off I go to check armed with a pick-axe handle and a German Shepherd dog.

On the one occasion when the Guardia Civil turned up they wanted to arrest me because they assumed I was the burglar despite the fact that I was in possession of a set of keys AND having been told by the operator at the alarm company central station that I would most likely be on the scene if and when they arrived.

It was only the fact that my faithful dog did not take too kindly to their attitude towards me that prevented me ending up in handcuffs. I finally persuaded them to call my friend who is also a Guardia Civil and was luckily on duty in another area. He obviously vouched for me and we now have a good laugh about it every time I see them but they would probably still nick me if they caught me driving without a seatbelt!

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Postby chrisuk » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:55 pm

Im presently staying about 78ks inland fom malaga in a place called something or another marcos, something to do with caves, its a village on a hillside and very steep, so far being to a few of the local pubs and walking around a bit I have not sensed any negative vibe in anyway, people dont eye you out as you walk in and welcome you a unusual manner and are friendly

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Postby masterob » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:41 am

Surely the answer depends on safe in what circumstances?
While I feel safe living in a rural area, also safe because I have concerned neighbours, I feel less safe living in an area prone to power cuts. I also feel less safe because of my very limited ability to speak Spanish should there be an emergency. I feel VERY unsafe driving on Andalusian roads! Which is the greatest risk? From my perception it is the language and driving issues so I guess I feel less safe!

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Postby pete_l » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:48 am

Apparently there's very little correlation between feeling safer somewhere
and actually being safer. There was an article in the economist (I think)
about this last year. They showed that people's perceptions of the
amount of crime has little to do with the crime rate.

Examples (from memory, so forgive any inaccuracies) were people in
affluent areas are more afraid of crime than those in poorer areas -
even though the amount of crime was much less.
Also, men aged 16-24 were less afraid of being mugged than women over
60, although the men suffered many times more muggings.

The conclusion was that fear of crime is more of a "catch-all" for peoples
general anxieties, than about crime itself.
Maybe one reason people in Andalucia may feel less afraid of
crime is that they are generally more relaxed and possibly less aware of
the actual crime rate.

Pete

frank
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Postby frank » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:05 pm

katy wrote:Mainly agree but its not all black and white, Spain is changing and if you read the spanish papers there are many drink associated stabbings and fights among spanish youth. plaza mayor has had its fair share of problems at the weekend and in recent years a lot of fiestas have been marred by fights and stabbings.
Agree, it's not as crime free as the'd have us believe. It depends on a lot on where you live of course, you've more chances of seeing gangs of drunks in the larger towns and resorts than you would in a small village. Throughtout Spain, the problems with the "botellón" and all the aggro that goes with it are well documented. Seville is a favourite spot if you feel the need. (http://www.ruidos.org/Prensa/General/Se ... villa.html) Although the campo is not as free of crime as Silver tells us. ;-) "Moving Soon" and others from the large towns and cities probably will find the less built up areas of Andalucia with much less crime. If I lived where Moving Soon lived, I would have moved years ago! ;-) Just as there are quieter areas in Andalucia, so there are in UK. The sort of things that Moving Soon talks about, are all completely unknown to me in my little almost crime free corner of the world, so as a consequence when I visiit Andalucia, I feel much less safe there. It's the only place my car has been broken into (my ex neighbour as well), and where I've seen a woman being dragged along the streets of Fuengirola by her bag, as youths on a bike grabbed it. On the other hand, those coming from London, Manchester etc, are used to this and probably find themselves safer there.
Regards, Frank

No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?

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silver
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Postby silver » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:13 pm

Although the campo is not as free of crime as Silver tells us
frank stop doing that...
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.

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spanish_lad
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Re: Personal Security

Postby spanish_lad » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:27 pm

meseta wrote:Do you feel safer here in Andalucia than where you lived before ?
no, not in the slightest, in fact i dont feel safe at all.
spanish hopes wrote:What is more important to me is that my wife feels safer, and is prepared to go out on an evening alone.
ask her to go and get you some cash out of a poorly lit cashpoint while talking on her mobile phone and flashing her jewelery to all that are looking. i´m sure she wouldn´t feel safe then. you dont stay in a city centre when you are in spain do you sñr hopes? a city is a city.. they dont vary from country to country. i wouldn´t want a woman walking about on her own if i could help it.
kelly4 wrote:I feel 100% safer in terms of violent crime and burglary. And my kids can actually play out alone (as long as they bring a walkie taklie...once a Londoner, always a Londoner). But this only extends to the boundaries of my very small village. I don't feel any safer along the coast than I did in London but that could be because it's not such a familiar environment.
comparing london to your tiny village isn´t a very good comparison? would you let your kids play in the middle of malaga, even with a walkie talkie?
kelly4 wrote:That said, I feel very very lucky each time I arrive home alive after driving on the Spanish roads. So, I'm not sure we're necessarily safer here. There is generally (to me) a somewhat cavalier attitude towards safety here.
lol...spanish drivers.. london white van men on speed with their eyes shut? :lol: "a cavalier attitude" ?? do you mean to say that "safety" is not an issue in spain ? no one thinks about it ? like its never gonna happen so they arn´t bothered ? thats the way it feels to me. i would say "ignorant" or "blinkered" rather than "cavalier"...
Moving Soon wrote:Unfortunately the social problems created by hard drug abuse seem to be worldwide now and you would have to go somewhere very remote not to be affected by them.
its not only drugs, but drink as well. it may interest you to know that a "line" is cheaper than a "shot" in spain. how worrying is that ?!?!! the market value of an "E" is only 2€ (1.40).dont think that just because you dont see it, that its not there.
Moving Soon wrote:I also don't see large gangs of extremely drunk people reeling around the streets in the early hours of the morning and getting into fights in Spain - although no doubt I would if I visited resorts such as Torremolinos or Fuerengirola - but they wouldn't be Spanish! Go through the streets of any British city or fair sized town on a Friday or Saturday night and it looks line a scene that could have been painted by Hogarth.
then you are not looking hard enough or are hiding away in your safe locked up villa and not wanting to. i live in alhaurin el grande. i see at least 3 or 4 fights every weekend due to drunkeness / girls / rival gypsy gangs / drugs / people being kicked out of bars for taking drugs / blokes fighting over girls...it DOES happen. as i said i live in alhaurin el grande, 40 ish minutes inland, nowhere near the coast and i see it ALOT. i´ve seen people mugged, stabbed, beaten by the guardia, bottled, and friends of mine have been raped. i´ve seen gypsies picking pockets and bags in broad daylight in the markets and car boot sales.
Spanish Hopes wrote:It amazes me the amount of British parents who allow their kids to drink in Spain. Often to be seen are obviously underage teens sipping the alcopops provided by Mum and Dad.
The same parents would probably never dream of buying the drinks in a pub in the UK.
They brag about how well their kids are integrating when reality of that integration is often no more than their 13 or 14 year old daughter swapping spit with some eager young spaniard in the communal gardens of some development whilst Mum and Dad hammer the G+T's in their local. The only word of spanish their daughters have learned is 'Si'.
i´ve seen this happen so many times its unreal, kids getting drunk and falling over on beers and alcopops that their parents are buying them. it´s legal and i have to serve them as the parents are with them, as long as the parents are buying them. i had to stop serving them because they were getting too drunk, and in the end the parents were buying them and letting the children drink from theirs.. its a no win situation if the parents are willing participants.

Sñr Hopes, i´m glad that it was you that comented on the intergration of english girls / spanish boys.. if it was me i think i´d of been alot more graphic. the things i´ve seen and heard of, the girls i´ve "rescued" from being raped bears no resembelance to the uk. one of my best friends was raped by a 55 year old married spanish man after he had been buying her drinks and giving her cocaine, she was only 13 at the time. she thought he "loved" her. but thats a different story..
moving soon wrote:Why is it that people of almost every nation seem to be able to go out and have an enoyable time without getting hammered but many (not all) British people just want to drink until they fall over?
i dont like to get that drunk, it has happened on occasion, but its not my plan. i´ve seen the end result too often to want that :(
ian.wilson wrote:100%, especially after living on the East London Essex border. I`ts feels liek a war zone everytime I go back. It`s got to the stage where hopefully I will never go back (family funerals are the only exception now).
where abouts in london /essex did you live, and what are you comparing it to ? where do you live now ? (you should try living in alhaurin el grande, we´ve had the national guard / army here, with riot gear - there was a massive, but un-reported gun fight between gypsy rival gangs in the summer last year :shock:
katy wrote:Mainly agree but its not all black and white, Spain is changing and if you read the spanish papers there are many drink associated stabbings and fights among spanish youth. plaza mayor has had its fair share of problems at the weekend and in recent years a lot of fiestas have been marred by fights and stabbings.
well said Katy - at least someone reads the news and doesn´t stick their head in the sand.. the grass is not greener on this side, it is positivly bloodstained :( (for all the newbies in here, read up on "tony alexander king, alhaurin el grande" > in ANY paper, and then do yourself a favour and research "streetgang, malaga" on google or the Sur in English Website...(the police recently broke a gang of 11-17 year old streetgang up in malaga centre who were mugging using knives and handguns...)
mhic wrote:As far as I know there has only been one crime to speak of in our village in the three years we have lived here. Like Ian we also lived on the E London/Essex borders and there were break in's every week in our street.

In England I would not let my grandkids play in the street un-supervised but here they play out with the local kids till 10.30pm most nights when they come to stay.

Never worried about crowds of teenagers here but back in England there were always rows with them.
there may be less break-ins in spain...but they are more violent - often involving guns. do you think that they dont break in in your little village because there is nothing of value in the houses? you are much more likely to get shot. it might interest you to know that a high percentage of illegal *beep* (of all kinds) is hosted on spanish servers. will you still be letting the kids out to play?
kevin77 wrote: 1) Should ASBOs now be extended to cover the CDS?
yes of course. and more crimes should be reported, rather than being avenged with hit men or "da boys"...
Beachcomber wrote:I have the keys for three rural properties which are protected by an alarm connected to a central station and when one of these alarms goes off I go to check armed with a pick-axe handle and a German Shepherd dog.
if these owners feel the need to alarm their properties and "employ" a "guard".. what does that tell you ?
chrisuk wrote:Im presently staying about 78ks inland fom malaga in a place called something or another marcos, something to do with caves, its a village on a hillside and very steep, so far being to a few of the local pubs and walking around a bit I have not sensed any negative vibe in anyway, people dont eye you out as you walk in and welcome you a unusual manner and are friendly
"cuevas de San Marcos", up by caserbermeja...yes, and the same applies.. its a small village, everyone knows everyone, theres nothing of value in the houses, there is not going to be any crime ... if you moved to a village in the middle of somerset surrounded by farmers it would be exactly the same.
masterob wrote:Surely the answer depends on safe in what circumstances?
While I feel safe living in a rural area, also safe because I have concerned neighbours, I feel less safe living in an area prone to power cuts. I also feel less safe because of my very limited ability to speak Spanish should there be an emergency. I feel VERY unsafe driving on Andalusian roads! Which is the greatest risk? From my perception it is the language and driving issues so I guess I feel less safe!
my sentiment exactly - if everyone spoke spanish to a competant leval, it would "feel" alot better - you´d be able to explain and get help if you need it.
pete_l wrote:The conclusion was that fear of crime is more of a "catch-all" for peoples
general anxieties, than about crime itself.
Maybe one reason people in Andalucia may feel less afraid of
crime is that they are generally more relaxed and possibly less aware of
the actual crime rate.
well said pete, and i totally agree with you on that - people think its safer because less is reported.



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