Is spain cheaper than the UK??

[silver]

Spanish lad

yes. yes. and YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy at last Very Happy

Seems to me that you are answering a different question to

wether spain is cheaper than the uk

lis48 has the correct answer

But I'll still maintain that noone can possibly argue sensibly that Spain is more expensive or equal to England in absolute terms.

[Moving Soon]

Well, Spanish Lad, if you bothered to read the entire thread you would have seen that I did in fact post a response giving my views on relative costs in Spain and England. I don't disagree for one minute that it is much harder and more expensive to live in Spain when you need to earn an income and have said so repeatedly in this and earlier threads. That's why, although I have owned a property in Spain for 3 years I would not contemplate moving until now when I can live without needing to work - something I certainly could not afford to do if I wanted to carry on living in England.

However, if my opinon of you (and I don't think I actually expressed one, only suggested that you would be better off looking for work in UK) is of no interest to those in this forum, why do you assume that your opinions of others should be of any interest either? I think to describe people as you did as 'G&T drinking coffin dodgers that live off their English pensions looking over their land and thinking everything is perfect in their little world' is pretty offensive, so if you want to express strong opinions yourself in the form of stereotyping people you don't know, you must allow others the freedom to do likewise. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

And Kevin 77, I hope I would do my best to fit in with whatever community I choose to live in as that is just basic good manners, but when I get to Spain that community won't be an expat one - I will be living right in the middle of a working Spanish town with predominantly Spanish neighbours which suits me fine. I've never drunk gin in my life, don't play golf or bridge, but don't disparage the choices other people make. As a matter of fact I am a lifelong socialist who resigned from the Labour Party in protest against Blair taking us to war with Iraq so I don't think I'm likely to be getting a blue rinse any time soon.

[spanish hopes]

I don't think I'm likely to be getting a blue rinse any time soon.

Don't knock it Moving soon, some people find it very fetching, grouser for one.

[Paula]

Hope you enjoy your retirement in Spain, Moving Soon.

It is very hard I think for people moving from the UK who have to make a living, to do so in Spain. (We are only here funded by our business in the UK, and my husband commuting) I meet many mums of families that have moved over thinking that they will be able to find jobs as easily as they could in the UK. Then its a big problem when they find its not that easy, particularly when they have sold up and put their money into a property generally with a mortgage to pay. Certainly the general cost of living on the coast is high. But I don't think they have done enough research to start with. You don't have to be here long to realise that there really isn't a job market as such for expats.

People with retirement incomes of whatever age, are in a great position to make choices on where they move to and should be less likely to find that they have made a mistake. An enviable position to be in I say, and I look forward to being in that position one day.

[spanish_lad]

i´m sure that anyone who retires to spain will have a very nice life.

paula, thats definatly a good point, it seems that an increasing amount of people i know, the mums/kids live in spain and the dads go off to work in the uk or whatever, comuting in-between.

i guess you are right in what you say that there is no job market as such, i definatly agree with that, it certainly is not as easy for those of us that have to earn money.

I don't disagree for one minute that it is much harder and more expensive to live in Spain when you need to earn an income and have said so repeatedly in this and earlier threads. That's why, although I have owned a property in Spain for 3 years I would not contemplate moving until now when I can live without needing to work - something I certainly could not afford to do if I wanted to carry on living in England.

despite what you say after this.. that sounds like you are actually agreeing with what i say??


the only way you could live in spain without working is either with a BIG lump sum, or off your pension? i´m curious as to which it is...because i´m wondering why you cant live in the uk on a uk pension (if thats the case) when god knows how many millions of people do? do you have really expensive tastes? i´m not trying to be rude here, i am genuinely interested.

[spanish hopes]

the only way you could live in spain without working is either with a BIG lump sum, or off your pension? i´m curious as to which it is...because i´m wondering why you cant live in the uk on a uk pension (if thats the case) when god knows how many millions of people do? do you have really expensive tastes? i´m not trying to be rude here, i am genuinely interested.

The overall cost of living in the UK is higher than in Spain. That is if you take into account Community Charge, Energy Costs, Fresh veg, cigarettes, alcohol, and the usually colder weather over a year.
Earnings are higher to somwhat compensate. Thus people with a UK pension can buy more for their money in Spain, have (usually) better weather and a more relaxed lifestyle.

[spanish_lad]

oh i know that mr hopes, i was just wondering why moving soon feels that s/he couldn´t do it, rather than just prefering not to ?

[spanish hopes]

I shouldn't worry spanlad. By the time you come to what would have been retirement age it will have been moved on to about 75. The wild life style you lead means you probably won't live long enough to collect your pension anyway.

[Paula]

Poor lad probably can't earn enough to lead a wild lifestyle.
Infact I feel sorry for Spanish lads generation (i'm guessing very early 20's here) whether they be in Spain or the UK, I doubt that early retirement will be an option or possibility for that generation.

As for cost of living Spain v UK, I think it depends very much on circumstances and lifestyle. If you had an expensive social life in the UK, you can probably cut way back on that in Spain one way and another, particularly with the good weather.

If you have children there are lots of things that are more expensive in Spain. There is nowhere near the vast choice of cheaper clothing for kids in Spain, school uniforms cost a fortune, nowadays you can pick them up at Tescos and Asda in the UK. Toys, there are very few of the abundant special offers that you get in the UK. But we did spend more on entertaining the kids in the UK than we do here.

The UK shopping thing in general is I think way cheaper than Spain, all the choices and multibuys etc.
Which is why my husband moans that he will never get to travel back each week with just a briefcase rather a 20kg suitcase

But yes rates and certain food items etc are cheaper.
And at the moment we are all, children included enjoying it here. That may change and we will rethink when the kids get older.

[Moving Soon]

Just to explain, Spanish Lad, what I mean is that I agree that it is much more difficult to find a job (let alone a well paid job) in Spain - therefore it is harder to live in Spain when you need to earn an income. However that's not the same thing necessarily as saying that Spain is more expensive - if you have an income of say 12,000 E a year (from whatever source, be it a job, pension or savings) I think you could live on that more comfortably than you could in the UK.

I don't mind at all explaining my own circumstances. I have been working for over 30 years in the public sector and contributing (a lot!) into a final salary pension scheme which will give me an index-linked income of approx 19,000 E a year based on current exchange rates when I reach the age of 60, plus a lump sum - even if I give up work tomorrow. According to my state pension forecast, the amount of state pension I would get at age 65 will be the princely sum of £9 a week more if I worked until I am 65, than if I give up work this year. Worth working another 15 years for - I don't think so! My partner will have a small pension from local government in 3 years' time, another occupational pension plus his state pension in 8 years. I will be 50 in a few months time therefore if I want to move over to Spain this year I have to find enough money for us to survive on for at least 8 years. This will be coming in part from the sale of my UK house (not a fortune as it's a terraced house in Lancashire) and partly from an inheritance my partner received when his father died last year and the proceeds from the sale of his house were shared amongst his 4 children. Likewise, not a fortune but the two together will allow us to pay off the mortgage on the Spanish house and live modestly for the next 8 years until we have enough pensioni income to live on (and I'd like to be able to indulge expensive tastes but I am well aware and prepared for the fact that I will have to curb my natural spendthrift tendency). I am prepared to do that in order to give up the rat race and a minimum of 3 hours a day commuting in England.

If I decided to give up work and stay living in England, even if I had no mortgage on the house, given the cost of Council Tax, utilities, house insurance, food, alcohol, public transport, entertainment and the need for heating for a greater proportion of the year (and I know it gets cold in Spanish houses in the winter, but in England I had to have the heating on in August last year!) I know I could not manage on the same amount of money we will have to live on for a year in Spain. I know from experience over the last 3 years as a householder in Spain that all those things are cheaper there - although as I said in an earlier post there are undoubtedly other things that are more expensive in Spain - phone, broadband, clothes, furniture to name some. We have made sure that all major refurbishment needed on the Spanish house has been done whilst we are still working, we have got it all fully furnished and equipped with stuff that has had only a few weeks' use since we bought it, and I have even stockpiled enough new clothes to bring over to last me 2 or 3 years! I know all that won't last for ever but by the time things need replacing our annual income will have increased by 30% when my partner gets his first pension in 3 years' time. He is a time-served plumber and good at other kinds of DIY so will be able to do most maintenance himself.

Anyone in the UK who only has a state pension to live on is entitled to other benefits eg Minimum Income Guarantee, discounts on Council Tax, reduced transport costs etc. If I gave up work to live on savings until I get my pension I would not qualify for any of that (and rightly so).

So that's why I believe I will be better off living in Spain - but of course that's only in my own circumstances and I do agree with Paula that sadly it appears that some people who make the move thinking it will be easy to find work have not done enough research.

As for me the only snag now is actually getting someone to buy my house - the whole plan stands or falls on that!

[fincalospinos]

Interesting thing in one of the UK newspapers this morning, an elderly guy wrote in:

Quote - " I have just received my Council tax bill of £1295. Eight years ago would have taken 7 weeks of my pension money to pay the Council tax at that time.
My current pension is £109, so now it will take me 12 weeks pension to pay it. If both figures keep rising at the same rate, in 15 years time all my pension will be needed to pay the Council tax " Unquote

Worth thinking about ?

[Paula]

Moving soon - what are you doing about health cover out of interest.
Its another considerable cost when not at retirement age.

[Moving Soon]

Hi Paula

As I understand it we will be entitled to free public health care in Spain for 2 years after moving if we get an E106 form (I think its called) based on NI contributions paid in the UK. After that we will have to investigate the cost of private health insurance to see if we can afford it until my partner gets his state pension in 8 years time - so a gap of 6 years to consider, after which as he will be in receipt of a British state pension we will again be entitled to public health care in Spain. Luckily we are both currently in excellent health with no pre-existing chronic conditions (which wouldn't be covered by private insurance anyway) but of course you never know what is around the corner. My mother died at 63 from an aortic aneurysm which is what really started me off thinking that I did not want to continue in a stressful job until I am 60 or over just to draw a pension that I might not have long to enjoy. I never had a gap year or 'dropped out' when I was younger so I am sure as hell going to do it now!

[Paula]

Well you have planned everything as best you can!!
I wish you good luck and good health

[lis48]

The best of luck Movingsoon. I think you have an excellent attitude and agree with what you say though suspect that to live a full life, car, holidays, dining out etc. out here, 15000 euros rather than 12000 is nearer the mark for a couple. E106 will give health cover for 2 years as you say though we opted to take out Sanitas private health insurance immediately at around 60 euros a month each just in case something happened within the two years which might be refused by private insurers later. I know they wouldn't cover chronic illnesses but also know they can refuse completely if you sound a bit "vulnerable to illness" so didn't want to risk that.

[katy]

You can never predict a tight budget, what about repairs and replacement, extra expenditure when friends and family are out? etc etc.

As for G&T quoffers I would have rather have had my parents doing this when they retired than living on some 10000 Sm2 plot, isolated by not speaking the language, far from hospitals, carting gas bottles and living in a track suit for most of the year. I take comfort that here I can get a doctor to the house 365/7 and even buy a G&T in the hospital cafe.

[spanish hopes]

and even buy a G&T in the hospital cafe

I went to a funeral in Estepona in December and they even had a bar in the cemetary, now that is what I call civilized. Though I'm not sure if they served spirits or not.

[Moving Soon]

Yes I agree we would need more than 12,000 E a year if we wanted to run a car but we are quite happy to manage without one and use only public transport whenever we visit now, it's very good and frequent in Velez. I can't drive anyway so I'm used to that, and if anything should happen to my partner (he's older than I am) I need to be somewhere I can get about without driving. I think we can scrape together enough for the occasional meal out!

In terms of needing things replaced, yes of course we will eventually, but as we're starting off with everything brand new that shouldn't be for a while, and after 3 years our income will increase by 25% when my partner gets his first pension so that will help a lot. The first 3 years are definitely going to be the hardest but we both know that and are prepared for it. More pension income will come in after 8 years and after 10 years we will have a joint income of about 30,000 E a year (most of it index-linked so inflation won't be too much of a problem) which should be more than enough, plus a lump sum for emergencies!

As for friends and family visiting, I have no qualms about explaining to people that we are living on a fixed income and whilst they are welcome to stay they will need to pay their own way, and anyone who doesn't like it can pay for their own holidays elsewhere (or maybe we can arrange house swaps with relatives so we can spend some time back in the UK to get away from the really hot weather and stock up on new clothes). After all we Northerners are renowned for not being averse to plain speaking, you know!

[Lorraine - Mijas]

Moving Soon,
I can really recommend using the house swap option, we did this for 10 years with friends back in the UK, house / car swap and it worked brilliantly and saved both parties a small fortune, even cheaper and easier these days with all the low cost airlines.

Lorraine

[pigs-might-fly]

Public Service pensions earned in the UK are not subject to tax in Spain, but are considered to be fully taxed in the country of origen.
This does not apply to other pensions, including the OAP.
As tax allowances are so much lower in Spain, due to the lower wages, even modest, by UK standards, incomes can attract tax here. That is even after the double taxation treaty takes into account the UK income tax already paid at source.
If one is receiving such a public service pension, I believe it is common practice to ensure that no other sources of income come to the attention of the Spanish Tax Office.
Bear in mind that the tax office in Spain, when you are submitting your annual returns, requires fiscal statements from your friendly, (& expensive), Spanish Bank showing the average balance held in your account/s