Causing Offence?
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Sad K
Thanks for that reply sheilap. My neighbours should be fine as we already have German, Finish, and Swedish flags down the road. As for the other replies:Chrissi wrote:sheilap wrote:Hi Chrissi it might help if you ask the neighbours
and don't take any notice of the crass repliesfrom those who have nothing better to say
aligato; My local council informed me that I needed planning permission and would probably not get it as it WOULD be offencive to "Other" (maybe they meant you)
SadK; If I where insecure about my background why would I want to advertise it on the top of a flag pole?
Chrissi, take a drive down to El Faro, turn up into the ubanisation directly behind the lighthouse, up the hill a bit, there's a guy living there among a mixed community who has a large Union flag stretched across his roof, he has to go to Fuengirola to do his shopping as no one in La Cala or the surrounding area will serve him, check it out!!
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neilinalcaucin
- Andalucia.com Amigo
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:40 pm
- Location: uk / spain
FLY IT IF YOU WANT!!
Far be it for me to be unpatriotic but I fail to see why anyone wishes to fly their country of origins flag, it just looks cheap and trashy as far as I can see - What are you trying to acheive by flying it?
Why don't you go half way and fly it during the World cup just to show thats where your support / loyalty lies but take it down after. It just seems like alot of people want Little Britains!! or Swedens or Germans in your street!!
Good luck and think about this - Many Asylum seekers move to the UK because their lives are at risk etc now if you were living in the UK and your new neighbour who wanted to join the UK to protect him / herself , their family started flying the flag of Afghanistan, Poland, Sudan /wherever on a pole outside their house - would you be offended by it ?? or even just anoyed that it effects the perception of the street , your house just by having a flag pole.
Now i am guessing but I bet you moved to Spain for the quality of life, Sun etc
Sorry If i have offended anyone - no intent meant
Why don't you go half way and fly it during the World cup just to show thats where your support / loyalty lies but take it down after. It just seems like alot of people want Little Britains!! or Swedens or Germans in your street!!
Good luck and think about this - Many Asylum seekers move to the UK because their lives are at risk etc now if you were living in the UK and your new neighbour who wanted to join the UK to protect him / herself , their family started flying the flag of Afghanistan, Poland, Sudan /wherever on a pole outside their house - would you be offended by it ?? or even just anoyed that it effects the perception of the street , your house just by having a flag pole.
Now i am guessing but I bet you moved to Spain for the quality of life, Sun etc
Sorry If i have offended anyone - no intent meant
Know you tried, effort always shows.
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chrisuk
- Andalucia.com Amigo
- Posts: 242
- Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:47 pm
- Location: Spain, somewhere near Malaga~ish
And here's me trying to hide my caravan's GB euro numbe plate.... well well well, Im only adding this as Im not pro anything, I have a belief there should be no borders or control anywhere in the world, we cant take this planet with us once we step in to the other side, but thats me and on the other hand I also respect the views of others, its called living with each other, social tolerance comes to mind...
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Chrissi
Re: FLY IT IF YOU WANT!!
I'm a bit at a loss to understand it as well!neilinalcaucin wrote:Far be it for me to be unpatriotic but I fail to see why anyone wishes to fly their country of origins flag, it just looks cheap and trashy as far as I can see - What are you trying to acheive by flying
To fly a flag of this nature, you need to be extremely proud of that particular country, so I can't quite see how you can then opt for another country, rather than stay in the one you appear to be so proud of! I could understand it if you lived in England, but not after having opted out it.Regards, Frank
No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?
No soy residente, simplemente un turista, ¿qué sé yo?
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nevada smith
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Valencia_Paul
- Resident
- Posts: 284
- Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:04 pm
- Location: Liverpool and Valencia Region
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spanish hopes
You are still insinuating that those who opt to live in Spain are doing so because they are ashamed of their own country....how ridiculousyou need to be extremely proud of that particular country, so I can't quite see how you can then opt for another country, rather than stay in the one you appear to be so proud of!
No muerdes la mano que te da de comer.
My 12 yr old son will have his St Georges flag hanging out in the garden for the World Cup. We have a number of different nationalities in our community nobody has ever been offended (it only comes out for football games) Infact I would say it has encorouged neighbours to talk to him about the games. And our Spanish neighbours across the street keep threatening him that they will replace it with the Spanish flag whilst he is asleep.If I am honest I don't particularly like having his painted sheet blowing in the garden, but I would never discourage him from showing pride and support for his country of birth.
(A tattoo would be a different matter
)
Stupid question I presume, but what does the reference to troll mean???
(A tattoo would be a different matter
)Stupid question I presume, but what does the reference to troll mean???
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Sad K
Who exactly is being naive, can we get their names??spanish hopes wrote:And the same troll every time. He only changes his name not his style thereby being even more obvious. People are sometimes too trusting or maybe naive.Valencia_Paul wrote:Yes I don't know how anybody could not realise that this thread is the work of a troll.
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spanish hopes
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Valencia_Paul
- Resident
- Posts: 284
- Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:04 pm
- Location: Liverpool and Valencia Region
What is a troll? This is from wikipidia, sorry it is a bit long!
Proposed motivations for trolling:
Trolling can be described as a breaching experiment, which, because of the use of an alternate persona, allows for normal social boundaries and rules of etiquette to be tested or otherwise broken, without serious consequences. This may be part of an attempt to test the limits of some discourse, or to identify reactive personalities. By removing identities and histories from the situation, leaving only the discourse, some scientists believe that it is possible to run social engineering experiments using troll methods. However, few believe that troll organizations are engaged in science, and a few scattered individuals, with no particular method or thesis, cannot be described as scientists. They might however be engaged in research.
Anonymous attention-seeking: The troll seeks to dominate the thread by inciting anger, and effectively hijacking the topic at hand.
Amusement: To some people, the thought of a person getting angry over statements from total strangers is entertaining. This could be categorized as a form of schadenfreude - trolls with amusement motives deriving pleasure from the actual frustration/anger/pain (or what they may perceive in their own minds as such) from their targets.
Anger: Some people use trolling to express their hostility to a group or point of view.
Cry for help: Many so-called trolls, in their postings, indicate disturbing situations regarding family, relationships, substances, and school — although it is generally impossible to know whether this is just simply part of the troll. Some believe that trolling is an aggressive, confrontational way by which trolls seek a sort of tough love guidance in an anonymous forum.
Self-proclaimed trolls, and their defenders, suggest that trolling is a clever way of improving discussion, or an alternative method of viewing power-relations.
Setting oneself a challenge, simply to see if one can do it, and be successful: One member of an online forum, for example, joins under an unrecognizable identifying name to see if the other members of the forum can be fooled and, if so, for how long.
Wasting others' time: One of the greatest themes in trolling is the idea that a troll can spend one minute of time posting a troll, causing multiple other people to waste several minutes of their time, catalytically affecting others. Most trolls enjoy the idea that they can waste others' time at comparatively little effort on their behalf.
Domino effect: Related to amusement, but in a more specific fashion, it starts large chain reactions in response to one's initial post. Achieving a disproportionately large response to a small action is the general theme. This is similar to how a young child that goes "missing" (but is actually hiding) may act with glee, seeing a large number of people conducting a massive search in response to the supposed disappearance.
Suppression of information: A particularly nihilistic troll often aims to curb the sharing of helpful information between forum participants. For example, the skilled troll can turn an informative discussion about tips and techniques on coping with disease X... into a completely useless flame fest. This can keep essential information out of the hands of those who need it most, thus proliferating human suffering. A slightly less hostile variant is the supression of a discussion the troll does not like or finds offensive. A troll trolling a thread of sexist jokes would fit into this category.
Effect change in user opinions: A troll may state extreme positions to make his or her actual beliefs seem moderate (this often involves sock puppeteering or duals, where the bad cop is a sock-puppet troll) or, alternatively, play the role of the devil's advocate to strengthen the opposing convictions (with which he or she actually agrees).
Test the integrity of a system against social attacks or other forms of misbehavior: For example, blatantly violating terms-of-use in order to see whether any action is taken by the site administrators.
Overcome feelings of inferiority or powerlessness by getting the experience of controlling an environment.
Self-promotion.
Fight "groupthink": Many trolls defend their actions as shocking people out of entrenched conformism.
Klerck, also known as Kevin Ealy, was an Internet troll and Slashdot troll before his 2005 death.Satire: In these cases, the individuals do not think of themselves as trolls, but misunderstood humorists or political commentators.
Satisfaction gained from personal attacks.
Harassment: following a person — who has been targetted for harassment in one forum, but who has chosen to escape being victimized by moving on — and trolling the forum as a means of making that new "home" an uncomfortable place for that person to be online.
Lowering signal to noise ratio: On Slashdot, moderation points, that could be used to moderate up alternative posts, are wasted on moderating down things like ASCII pictures of the goatse man. At certain thresholds, this lowers the quality of comments.
Anonymously testing an alternate persona.
Emptying a forum: this is usually only feasible if the forum is small.
Attempting to discredit a group by posing as a member of that group, and posting inflammatory messages to give the appearance that the group espouses such opinions. This type of troll usually gives him or herself away fairly quickly.
It is difficult to gauge the motivations of trolls, since most of the justifications offered by alleged trolls for their behavior are nothing more than ruses concocted to continue whatever mischief they imagine themselves to have started. This is unfortunate because, as the above list supposes, there are legitimate reasons for engaging in the sort of actions for which trolling is known. Still, etiquette is simple and straightforward enough that most people can advance the aims professed by self-exculpatory trolls, without actually resorting to these methods. Since there is a wide spectrum of possible motivations for trolls, some of these functions being benevolent and others, clearly malevolent, to typecast users as trolls in the negative sense is often rash.
Some users of Internet forums are considered to be "trollhunters", or "trollbaiters". They willingly enter into conflicts when trolls emerge. Often, trollhunters are as disruptive as trolls. A single troll-post may be ignored, but if ten trollhunters "pounce", following a troll, they will drive the thread off-topic.
Proposed motivations for trolling:
Trolling can be described as a breaching experiment, which, because of the use of an alternate persona, allows for normal social boundaries and rules of etiquette to be tested or otherwise broken, without serious consequences. This may be part of an attempt to test the limits of some discourse, or to identify reactive personalities. By removing identities and histories from the situation, leaving only the discourse, some scientists believe that it is possible to run social engineering experiments using troll methods. However, few believe that troll organizations are engaged in science, and a few scattered individuals, with no particular method or thesis, cannot be described as scientists. They might however be engaged in research.
Anonymous attention-seeking: The troll seeks to dominate the thread by inciting anger, and effectively hijacking the topic at hand.
Amusement: To some people, the thought of a person getting angry over statements from total strangers is entertaining. This could be categorized as a form of schadenfreude - trolls with amusement motives deriving pleasure from the actual frustration/anger/pain (or what they may perceive in their own minds as such) from their targets.
Anger: Some people use trolling to express their hostility to a group or point of view.
Cry for help: Many so-called trolls, in their postings, indicate disturbing situations regarding family, relationships, substances, and school — although it is generally impossible to know whether this is just simply part of the troll. Some believe that trolling is an aggressive, confrontational way by which trolls seek a sort of tough love guidance in an anonymous forum.
Self-proclaimed trolls, and their defenders, suggest that trolling is a clever way of improving discussion, or an alternative method of viewing power-relations.
Setting oneself a challenge, simply to see if one can do it, and be successful: One member of an online forum, for example, joins under an unrecognizable identifying name to see if the other members of the forum can be fooled and, if so, for how long.
Wasting others' time: One of the greatest themes in trolling is the idea that a troll can spend one minute of time posting a troll, causing multiple other people to waste several minutes of their time, catalytically affecting others. Most trolls enjoy the idea that they can waste others' time at comparatively little effort on their behalf.
Domino effect: Related to amusement, but in a more specific fashion, it starts large chain reactions in response to one's initial post. Achieving a disproportionately large response to a small action is the general theme. This is similar to how a young child that goes "missing" (but is actually hiding) may act with glee, seeing a large number of people conducting a massive search in response to the supposed disappearance.
Suppression of information: A particularly nihilistic troll often aims to curb the sharing of helpful information between forum participants. For example, the skilled troll can turn an informative discussion about tips and techniques on coping with disease X... into a completely useless flame fest. This can keep essential information out of the hands of those who need it most, thus proliferating human suffering. A slightly less hostile variant is the supression of a discussion the troll does not like or finds offensive. A troll trolling a thread of sexist jokes would fit into this category.
Effect change in user opinions: A troll may state extreme positions to make his or her actual beliefs seem moderate (this often involves sock puppeteering or duals, where the bad cop is a sock-puppet troll) or, alternatively, play the role of the devil's advocate to strengthen the opposing convictions (with which he or she actually agrees).
Test the integrity of a system against social attacks or other forms of misbehavior: For example, blatantly violating terms-of-use in order to see whether any action is taken by the site administrators.
Overcome feelings of inferiority or powerlessness by getting the experience of controlling an environment.
Self-promotion.
Fight "groupthink": Many trolls defend their actions as shocking people out of entrenched conformism.
Klerck, also known as Kevin Ealy, was an Internet troll and Slashdot troll before his 2005 death.Satire: In these cases, the individuals do not think of themselves as trolls, but misunderstood humorists or political commentators.
Satisfaction gained from personal attacks.
Harassment: following a person — who has been targetted for harassment in one forum, but who has chosen to escape being victimized by moving on — and trolling the forum as a means of making that new "home" an uncomfortable place for that person to be online.
Lowering signal to noise ratio: On Slashdot, moderation points, that could be used to moderate up alternative posts, are wasted on moderating down things like ASCII pictures of the goatse man. At certain thresholds, this lowers the quality of comments.
Anonymously testing an alternate persona.
Emptying a forum: this is usually only feasible if the forum is small.
Attempting to discredit a group by posing as a member of that group, and posting inflammatory messages to give the appearance that the group espouses such opinions. This type of troll usually gives him or herself away fairly quickly.
It is difficult to gauge the motivations of trolls, since most of the justifications offered by alleged trolls for their behavior are nothing more than ruses concocted to continue whatever mischief they imagine themselves to have started. This is unfortunate because, as the above list supposes, there are legitimate reasons for engaging in the sort of actions for which trolling is known. Still, etiquette is simple and straightforward enough that most people can advance the aims professed by self-exculpatory trolls, without actually resorting to these methods. Since there is a wide spectrum of possible motivations for trolls, some of these functions being benevolent and others, clearly malevolent, to typecast users as trolls in the negative sense is often rash.
Some users of Internet forums are considered to be "trollhunters", or "trollbaiters". They willingly enter into conflicts when trolls emerge. Often, trollhunters are as disruptive as trolls. A single troll-post may be ignored, but if ten trollhunters "pounce", following a troll, they will drive the thread off-topic.
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Sad K
Trolls
Valencia-Paul.
That was quite an exaustive explanation, unfortunately I am no closer to understanding the motivation of such individuals although I have now been targetted as a troll, I am distraught
My question is this, why the hell do people waste their precious time carrying out any of the above described activities?
That was quite an exaustive explanation, unfortunately I am no closer to understanding the motivation of such individuals although I have now been targetted as a troll, I am distraught
My question is this, why the hell do people waste their precious time carrying out any of the above described activities?
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nevada smith
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spanish hopes
I admit and have always admitted to being a troll hunter. The problem with this particular resident troll is that he thrives on people who 'In his eyes' stick up for him. He will pronounce his innocence to all and sundry then turn on those who have offered him succour no matter how small.A single troll-post may be ignored, but if ten trollhunters "pounce", following a troll, they will drive the thread off-topic.
He is so multi ID'd that he uses his other ID's to attack himself in order to give an appearance of detatchment and innocence. He uses the we and us words a lot in order to appear that the whole forum is behind him.
His style, word usage, and defensive stance "It wasn't me Guv, Honest" are so pathetically identical that it is an insult to anyone that he thinks he is fooling people.
I would be perfectly happy not to be a troll hunter if he was to stop his stupidity, but he won't so you are unfortunately stuck with all of us, him, him, him, him, and I.
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