Should there be a "living in spain Proficiency test&quo

[spanish_lad]

so what do you think ? like when a brit moves to spain and doesn´t speak spanish...should there be some sort of a "test" of language and culture issues before we are allowed to move to another country ? i dont just mean spain, i mean if a brit decides to move to any other country. i´m aware that we are supposed to have "freedom of movement" within the E.U, but wouldn´t it make life alot easier in the foreign country if everyone had to be able to speak the language in order to live here ? obviously it would be hard to implement tho


alternitivly, why dont all employers make it a basic requirement of a cv that the applicant must have a "basic spanish language" certificate that could be tested for in any registered school or night college? i can see a big business oppertunity here, leading to a "better" spain for everyone ?

does anyone agree with what i am saying ? wouldn´t it be better if every foreigner could at least speak spanish to a certain level ?

i´m really interested in everyones views on this subject, as i feel that it has alot to do with how well we (as the foreigners in spain) integrate and contribute to society as we live here.

[Beachcomber]

This requirement already exists for a foreigner who wishes to become a Spanish national.

[kevin77]

Yeh, tell that to the guys climbing over the fence in Ceuta!
Easy test for a Columbiano or Argentino. Not so easy for some others.
Re; your idea SpanLad I agree in principle, but the majority of this forum are exempt from exams in that they have an acceptable alternative qualification ie. money, which seems to work very well for them: why should they put any effort in to learning a new language

[Moving Soon]

Brilliant idea, I'm all for having a 'basic Spanish' proficiency test. Would give the right signals as a statement of intent of people who wish to move to Spain being willing to adapt and learn about their new country of residence, maybe there could be some fairly simple questions about Spanish history and culture as well.

[Sad K]

Spanish Lad, in principal your idea is sound however as the EU is expanding at the rate it is, it's totally unworkable, it's not a requirement of any Eu citizen to learn the language of his newly adopted country of residence.
Learning the language of a a new country is a totally personal thing, by that I mean it depends on how badly you need or want to learn it, as Kevin has pointed out, many come to Spain and buy holiday homes which they might use for only a few months a year, alternatively they might live here permanently but have a good income from investments or pension, for those people (who do not need to work) the level of motivation is much lower and I'm sure in many cases non existant, I do think however that if you plan to spend a considerable amount of time in any country on a regular basis then it's common courtesy to be able to converse with the indigenous inhabitants in their own language.
For myself, I am making progress with the language, it's very slow and I usually don't understand at all if they cut off the end of a word or leave the "s" off the end of it, as they often do but still I'm trying and that's the main thing. Why not consider a more practical idea and introduce a common second language throughout the EU and teach it in schools throughout the EU, esperanto for example!

[citymike]

alternitivly, why dont all employers make it a basic requirement of a cv that the applicant must have a "basic spanish language" certificate that could be tested for in any registered school or night college? i can see a big business oppertunity here, leading to a "better" spain for everyone ?

It might be practical for someone working in an estate agents or in a bar but only in so much as it makes the Spanish feel better and for no practical reason that I can see. I don't think it would be practical for the branch of a UK or US multinational who use English as their professional language.

Most computer packages used by large companies are written in code that is documented in English (I mean the documentation of the code rather than the user documentation) and the code is derived from English words and so the vast majority of people who work in the sector of the computer industry that caters for large companies speak English.

[Sad K]

Your professional argument is entirely correct CityMike, unless of course you live in Russia or China , However I think the point Spanish Lad is making is that for the sake of good relations between the many nationalities who live in Spain and integration in general, it would be in the greater interest of the community (in Spain) if the foreign poulation were to make more effort to communicate in the native language, at least I think that's his purpose
Of course there are some who don't give a fig about integration but then they are usually the ones who end up with crap jobs and complain about how hard it is to be accepted in Spain

[MaggieMay]

It would be totally unachievable.

There are thousands of people living on the Costa del Sol that can manage Hola, Adios, and La Cuenta por favor, and thats it. But is it really having any ill effect on their lifestyle in Spain? No.
It's a personal choice thing.
But without doubt whether or not a person can speak Spanish, the natives that don't want you here still won't want you here no matter how well you think you have integrated. Exactly the same thing applies to the UK.

[Sad K]

You may be right Maggie, all over Europe there are those who do not want "interlopers", for want of a better description, but by and large mostly people everywhere just want to get on with life,so to that extent the language is not a life or death thing,) there are certain areas of Leeds and Bradford where the population is exclusively Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi, luckily our father took us away from that many years ago, but I can understand the resentment of some white Britsh people who have seen areas such as I described taken over by whole armies of "foreigners" to see this situation in reverse take a trip to Calahonda (between Fuengirola and Marbella sometime you'll see exactly what I mean!

Still think "Esperanto's" a good idea though as a second EU common language!

[MaggieMay]

I agree with you that large areas (if not most of) Leeds, Bradford etc have been taken over by immigrants. These were existing cities and previously populated in the majority by white British. Bit like Brick Lane and the East End.

Calahonda has not been taken over by armies of expats that have driven out Spanish people. It was built for expats. Calahonda is 5 or more times bigger than it was, and the only integration necessary is expat with expat.
Consequently its probably where you will hear the least Spanish spoken unless you go into the kitchen of one of the Spanish run restaurants.
But I doubt if the people living in Calahonda went to Spain to immerse themselves in the Spanish culture or language, and a lot have lived there for 10 -20 years with no need nor desire to learn Spanish.

[Moving Soon]

Weren't large areas of the East End (and particularly Brick Lane) largely populated by Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe before the present population from the Indian subcontinent got there? Watched a very interesting documentary on Channel 4 about it last Friday night.

The MT (black and minority ethnic) populations of Bradford and Leeds are still surprisingly low as a proportion of the population as a whole - given the popular propaganda spread around. The British city which is set to be the first where the BME population is in the majority is actually Leicester, and that will not happen for a number of years. These figures are from the official census.

[MaggieMay]

Yes you are quite right about Brick lane.

As for the official census figures I'll take your word for it, my point was more about Calahonda not being the situation in reverse.

[Sad K]

Yes you are quite right about Brick lane.

As for the official census figures I'll take your word for it, my point was more about Calahonda not being the situation in reverse.

Okay Maggie, I get you, I thought it was a Spanish enclave taken over by expats, thanks for clearing it up!!

[Chrissi]

To be fair most immigrants to the UK do learn some English it mainly consists of "when do I get my giro" or "this council house is to small" or "when do I get my new car".

[Sad K]

To be fair most immigrants to the UK do learn some English it mainly consists of "when do I get my giro" or "this council house is to small" or "when do I get my new car".

See what I mean Chrissi if you just learn a few phrases it would help, try calling Telephonica and saying:
!Eschucha usted tirõn consique de su asno, ahorafija mi ADSL, I'm sure you will get the appropriate response.
BTW have you considered having a Flag of St George tattoed on your head, it might be cheaper than a flagpole or perhaps a tasteful pair of those Union flag shorts, ever popular with the Fuengirola brigade!!

[spanish_lad]

It might be practical for someone working in an estate agents or in a bar but only in so much as it makes the Spanish feel better and for no practical reason that I can see. I don't think it would be practical for the branch of a UK or US multinational who use English as their professional language.

Most computer packages used by large companies are written in code that is documented in English (I mean the documentation of the code rather than the user documentation) and the code is derived from English words and so the vast majority of people who work in the sector of the computer industry that caters for large companies speak English.

mike, the computer packages may be in english, but i was thinking more of being able to comunicate with customers or other spanish members of the company, in spanish ? i doubt that they speak english face to face ?

and surely wouldn´t it help "us" (as foreigners) to get onto the spanish career ladder if we could prove that we could speak a decent standard of spanish?

[Mariamartinez]

I would say in any case you should be learning some of the language were you decide to live in especially if you are young, think about past examples of emigration and most of them have adapted to the language and culture and have some times raised their social status. In Spain has been few emigration since we were taken by the romans, the great cultures found in Spain a geographically strategic location but after them and the course of history no one ever wanted to come here. While France, Germany, Uk were receiving flows of people, Spain tradicionally easygoing with invaders, was the place no one wanted to go to. And now finally we could move to be a better society more tolerant and a bit more multicultural with our own flows of people... And we are lucky enough to have now some European neighbours coming to stay with us... all right!

But in any case I think learning the language is just a way of courtesy, the european multinational is not going to put the milk carton on the floor of you door if you know what I mean. At the end of the day this is Spain where we are all leaving but we all have a long path to walk together if we let it happen!

[costakid]

Spanish Lad the idea is great but there are loads of people living in spain and the only thing they have ever passed is there driving test. If they attempted to bring in a test of spanish culture i am sure they would all be off to bulgaria in a flash.

[Chrissi]

Driving tests in Spain??? do they exist? i am truly surprised

[MaggieMay]

They do have driving tests. I believe to pass you must show ability in tailgating at 140kms per hour forcing the car infront to change lanes, and an ability to overtake on the wring side and swerve into a gap that is not big enough for your car. Its a tough test.