Right to Roam and Riverbank laws?

[geegee]

Hi all,
Is there a free source of information anywhere about access over private land and crossing private land to reach a river? Are you entitled to this? What about camping on private land or public river banks?

I am writing from the landowner's perspective - happy to welcome walkers and picnickers if they take away their rubbish and don't damage the crops but we have problems with locals thinking they have the inalienable right to drive their motorbikes and quads over our (admittedly abandoned for 30 years land until we bought it) and camp overnight by the river close to our future house. This is causing environmental damage and other problems.

We are happy to 'share', tread slowly via a process of education and have no wish to errect large fences, but are concerned in particular about the young lads camping by the river and the possibility of a forest fire through careless use of campfires.

I am sure there will be lots of opinions (for and against public access) but I am specifically looking for the exact legal situation so we are better armed to manage the situation, especially the camping, and balance the interests of public and private...

Any ideas where I should start looking? Cannot ask our lawyer as we are in dispute over his extortionate fees!!

Regards,
geegee

[Bongtrees]

From my own experience you need to fence the land.

Even if the law says something different to what is happening now, you have no way of policing the land nor ejecting unwanted visitors I am afraid.

Mike

[silver]

If a right of way is not stipulated in your deeds you can put up a notice that says finca privado... You could go to the register office and check your details.

[spanish_lad]

i understand that if land is NOT fenced it can be crossed ?

[geegee]

Hi to you all- We have signs already, unfortunately these don't work and as our finca is long and thin we would need an enormous amount of fencing. We have been told by our Ayuntamiento that we cannot just fence off the whole lot anyway but difficult to know if this is true - I suspect there is a conflict of interest because some of the people whose activities we need to control are connected to the Ayuntamiento...

We live in a small community and the locals have had access to the land for the last 30 years. Even though its under new ownership, we want to avoid an antagonistic situation and are happy to provide some access, but we do need to know what the public and private rights are so WE can set the terms confindent that we are complying with the law. Especially regarding right of access to the riverbank (this runs through the centre of our finca but private landowner actually owns it), and to camp and light fires there...

Tricky situation - how do we find out without asking the Ayuntamiento? Be good to go back to them armed with the facts!

[geegee]

Sorry, to clarify the last bit - private landowners do NOT own the riverbanks - they are actually the responsibility of hidrografica so in reality they are public land...

[Bongtrees]

Tricky situation - how do we find out without asking the Ayuntamiento? Be good to go back to them armed with the facts!

As proof that there is a risk to owning unfenced land I have just been called to a property I own to find this!

[/img]

[Lavanda]

That's a bit scary. What constitutes a 'riverbank'?

I'm about to sign for a very nice walled and fenced finca that has a small 5 foot wide stream running alongside one edge of the land. The land has been 'worked' and not abandonded but has no dwelling of any sort on it. It looks well cared for if a little wild. The stream runs a long, long way past lots of other orderly, worked fincas and while everyone can use the water no one is allowed to dam it or impede its flow.

The other thing is that I have discovered lots of empty gun cartridges on the land and actually met a hunter on one of my recce visits. I'm told that no one is allowed to hunt within x metres of a house - so we will be OK once the house is built - and that I can go to the Ayuntamiento and declare my finca a no hunting zone if I want to.

It sounds OK but ... the photo you posted is my worst nightmare.

[Bongtrees]

Yes its mine too especially as we suffered a house fire last November in the house we actually live in. I´d have been better off if the house in the photo had burned down as I dont know how long the land will take to regenerate around it.

How much land are you buying?

Mike

[Lavanda]

I'm buying one and a half hectares which is about four acres.

I have to confess, though, that the finca isn't in Andalucia but in the Sierra de Montánchez, Extremadura. However, I feel I'm still eligible to post on this site as I still have a house in Coín - at the moment.

[Bongtrees]

Just curious as to how much land you need to legally build a house where you are? We are near Valencia and minimum is 10,000m2.

Mike

[El Cid]

In Andalucia it is 30000m2 for building on rustic land and you have to use the land for agriculture.

In Marbella you can build a 12 storey hotel anywhere you like

Sid

[Lavanda]

15000 sq m or 1.5 hectares legally allows building up to 300 sq m. Not a palace but enough for me. It might be different from province to province. Remember there's no one much in Extremadura and while they don't want millions of people I think they would quite like to encourge some.

[geegee]

Gisela, check the deeds, but any arroyo, rio or stream is the property of hidrografica (or whatever their new name for the waterboard is - cuenca de mediterranea or some such, which is a subdept of the medioambiente consejeria, at least here in andalucia). The waterboard own 5 metres either side of the river course and so this is theoretically 'public land', even if it forms part of your parcela.

An easy way to check is to look up your parcela number(s) on www.sigpac.mapa.es - just zoom in till you reach your particular land, check the parcela box to show the boundaries and select the area with the green arrow for details (takes a bit of getting used to). Anything marked as AG (corrientes y superficies de agua) and the above applies - bringing to the fore again the question as to whether we have to provide public access or not!!

Mike Bongtrees scenario is awful - commiserations, this kind of fire is exactly what I fear, and not sure fencing would help - if it was
deliberately set, fences probably offer little protection from such vandals...

[Lavanda]

I can't make the link work at the moment but will try again later.

Two thoughts:
if the water people own 5m either side of a water bank it might explain the overgrown tangle of brambles on either side of the stream running through otherwise well kept fincas,

and

the UK also has access rights for various people across private land. I once came home from work to find the gas board had dung a trench across my lawn, flower beds and very nice stone flagged path.
"Gas leak' they told me. "Don't need permission, love. It's an emergency".

Hopefully the water people will only come once every five years to hack brambles?

[El Cid]

You could try http://sigpac.mapa.es/fega/visor/

Just click on the magnifying glass icon to zoom in.

Sid

[nevada smith]

my apologies on that one -
couldn't get the site to open for the life of me -
thought it might be a misprint, so...

[Lavanda]

Thank you very much.
Site works brilliantly now - it's really good - and gives lots of statistics as well.
Once again, thanks to everyone.

[mark]

Geegee,
In the original post you say that you cannot ask your solicitor as you have disagreement with him/her. Could I suggest that you find another!