planning permission

[juliesteve&joe]

Buying a house in Iznajar area, and contract has come back saying that the ground floor of the property only has planning permission for commercial use. We didn't know this, and are buying it thinking we would use all floors as our family home. The building is not complete as yet. The structure is up, but no windows etc. we have had a survey and all is fine, but are now worried about achieving planning permission to turn it into living accom. has anyone any experience with the process- if so, how long can it take? How much will it cost? Are we likely to have it refused? The property is in a small hamlet and i dint think there would be any objections to the change, but you never know, do you?

Sorry if its a little long winded, but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[El Cid]

It is entirely possible that you would never get permission to use the lower floor. It depends on many factors all of which differ from town to town.

The only place you will get a definitive answer is the planning department in the town hall.

Get your solicitor or gestor to check it out and don't part with any money or sign anything until you are quite happy about it.

Don't be afraid to walk away from it - there are plenty of totally legal houses for sale.

If you buy it and it all goes pear shaped at least you will get the chance to tell your story on one of the many TV programs that are on Sky.

Sid

[juliesteve&joe]

Thanks for that. We are over for a week in 3 weeks time, so think we will check it out then.

[spanish_lad]

if you cant "live" in it see if u can make it a garage / workshop / storage ?

[juliesteve&joe]

That would be a good idea- only that would leave the actual living space much smaller than we want. We will see. Thanks for your advice all.

[silver]

the property only has planning permission for commercial use

Normally this part of the property is sold unfinished just ruffly bricked in...which means that to finish off you need another permission to complete this area...you could check that out with the builders....are there stairs from the rest of the house to the commercial part?

[juliesteve&joe]

Funnily enough the stairs come from the front door up to the 1st and 2nd floors, but with no exit into the ground floor from these stairs at all. the ground floor is entered by a separate set of doors completely, which we were hoping to brick up. What does this mean then?

[pete_l]

Funnily enough the stairs come from the front door up to the 1st and 2nd floors, but with no exit into the ground floor from these stairs at all. the ground floor is entered by a separate set of doors completely, which we were hoping to brick up. What does this mean then?

It means that the ground floor area has been designed to be
independent from the upstairs living quarters. The reason you would do
this is so that the commercial part can be let out to another party without
having them access the living part - which would normally be occupied
by someone else.
As El Cid suggests, your best bet would be to walk (or run!) away
from this deal. After all, it's only a house and the hassle you'll be storing
up for yourself simply isn't worth it. Hopefully you haven't made the mistake
of becoming emotionally invested in a place you don't actually own.
My advice would be to use your trip in a few weeks to look for another
place with no complications.

Good luck
Pete

[juliesteve&joe]

so does this mean, in order to actually put a door in from the hallway to this part of the house I would need planning permission then?
Sorry if i sound a bit thick on this!!

[silver]

Will all the property be on one deed??
As it is in a small hamlet..I doubt very much that you would get inspection. ..but you should not do anything until you are living there and all paper work completed .... and should now ask the builders or agent how this commercial part is going to be left... some are just bricked in with hollow bricks without rendering...no windows and just a temporary door...but not like a properly bricked wall.

[juliesteve&joe]

Thank you all for all your input and advice- it really is appreciated. have made an apt to go and see the solicitor guy in 2 weeks but he has given me some explanation, which seems to fit. apparently all will be okay. The ground floor is called commercial because it has no internal walls- we can put them up wherever we want apparently without any probs!?!
We will know better once we are face to face I think.
We also have builder/project manager coming to look at the place too, so things may become clearer. thanks again

[katy]

I would advise you to change your lawyer.

[El Cid]

I agree with Katy. Lawyers are happy to take your money - they don't have to pay the fine when you build illegally! You would most certainly need to get planning permission to build internal walls.

Just go and ask at the town hall or walk away from it.

Sid

[Marina]

I agree too. Even the smallest alterations here need permission and as you would essentially be changing the use of the building you really need to get some expert advice. As permission is given by the town hall, this is where you need to go. You should be able to get a Gestor to accompany you, if you think you may need help.
Your lawyer definitely sounds dodgy to me.

[juliesteve&joe]

It is actually a gestor who is advising me- manilo at Asinrute. Anyone had any dealings? he apparently works for the local council too. You have got me thinking now. think I will go to the town hall 1st then tak eit from there.

[Graye]

A gestor is definitely not a solicitor/lawyer. They are just a strange Spanish phenomena, a person Spaniards use to do their paperwork checking and general boring hanging about in offices. This seems to be as varied as drawing up contracts when you buy a car to standing in line when you need some sort of official form (and believe me, you will need loads of these in Spain). They are relied upon heavily in campo areas where older residents cannot read or write. They are also useful for foreigners as they generally know what documents you need for run of the mill applications. They can and do regularly get it wrong though.
Personally I would not rely on anything they have to say unless I can see it in writing, even from the Town Hall.

[juliesteve&joe]

Thanks everyone for all advice. We are coming over in 2 weeks, and no money is going anywhere until then. We have someone arranging for us to go and see someone at the town hall when we arrive, who will hopefully be able to make some sense of it all!

[Beachcomber]

A gestor is definitely not a solicitor/lawyer.

Well, thank goodness for that.

They can and do regularly get it wrong though.

But not as often as most lawyers.

The majority of Spanish lawyers in this field are nothing more than property conveyancers who have managed to fumble or bribe their way through a law degree, have learnt a bit of 'looky looky' English, and who have jumped on the property bandwagon along with all the other slimy, sharp suited chancers in the business. Most of them have never been inside a courtroom and certainly would not have the capacity to present a case in court if it came to that.

With very few exceptions a lawyer will do absolutely nothing except produce an inflated bill at the end of the transaction and deny all responsibility if there is any subsequent problem. I wouldn't trust one to look after my budgie let alone a property transaction involving hundreds of thousands of euros.

The only way you can be sure you are getting the right advice is to go to the Town Hall and take a proper independent legal translator with you who knows his way round the property laws and ask the questions yourself and I mean a professionally qualified translator not just someone who is able to speak Spanish and English with a questionable degree of efficiency.

The other complication is that building licences granted by a Town Hall are not valid unless they are also passed by the Junta de Andalucía so getting something in writing even from the mayor himself is no guarantee that everything will be OK.

I would suggest that you get the current owner to apply for the change of use and have the property registered as a dwelling even if you have to agree to pay the cost of doing so should it all work out. If he is unable to do so there is certainly no way that you will be able to.

[Mariamartinez]

Beachcomber,

can anyone possibly agree any more with you?? As a qualified legal translator and also certified translator (foreign affairs certification) I could not have said it better...