Anyone know anything about this???

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mhic
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Anyone know anything about this???

Postby mhic » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:17 pm

I have just recieved this from a friend who has been trying to get the permissions to re-form for 2 years. The plans have been passed by the college of architects and have been in the planning dept in Malaga for over a year now. Given the useless service he has had from the people he has employed to sort it all out, I think it's just an excuse but can anyone shed any light?


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Just been told that the law has changed in Malaga and you now need 250,000 sq metres to reform a house. My planning permissioin has been turned down because I only have 37,000 sq metres - never heared such a load of *beep* in all my life. No one seems to know anything about it, its the **** that was sorting my permissions out that told me, yet another *beep* up. She tells me that the land & house are now worthless as no one will be able to get permission to rebuild it , so it looks like I ve wasted 70K. This means (my interpretation) that if you live in the country and your house needs major works & you have less than 250,000 sq metres you can go and *beep* in the wind - dont seem to stack up.
Any thoughts ???

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kevin77
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Postby kevin77 » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:26 am

Can't be true - I watched that Sarah Beaney programme last night and she got permission for three rebuilds without any problem at all. The houses were valued by local 'expert estate agents' and they made a fortune, the figures were shown at the end of the show! :shock:

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spanish_lad
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Postby spanish_lad » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:38 am

250,000 m2 ?!???!??!?!? who ever has that much land!!!!!!

that cant be right ? i thought u could get a reform licence on anything and had to have 10,000 m2 to build new ?

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peteroldracer
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Postby peteroldracer » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:25 pm

I would not dare to regard myself as an "expert" in this field, but my understanding is that the big difference is between urban and rural land. In my view quite rightly, the Junta is trying to stop the proliferation of view-spoiling houses being built all over the place, on land that is for agriculture of some form. They keep moving goalposts as to how much land you must have, how many trees you then must plant, what degree of irrigation you must install, whether they may allow electricity to be wired in to the plot (to power the pump for the irrigation - decision on if you will be allowed domestic electric comes later!)before it can be regarded as needing a house to operate the finca. Friends locally had to have 35,000 sq m, had to plant 50 trees, install a well, then get electric........they still 2 years later have not been given a licence to install the log house they pre-bought, and may never get the licence. Possibly a conventional house may be negotiable....
Meanwhile there are plenty houses in villages - classified as urban - that need rebuilding, which can take the form of demolition and a complete new build if that is what it takes to have a house that complies with all current planning and construction legislation. There are no restrictions on size of plot, you will be living the Spanish way and helping to stem the decline of the campo, and you will not be besmirching yet another beautiful view!
I have some sympathy with the local ayuntamientos, for whom building licences have been a major source of income, but it does seem that the Junta is going to come out on top, and gambling on anything else by would-be expats is a brave or foolish step.
I do wonder why it is that some folk expect to be able to do what they like here, when they would not dream of being able to get permission to build a new house in open farmland back in the UK!
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silver
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Postby silver » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:24 pm

Getting permission to build or reform, fence or move earth, is not impossible..but its not easy ..

First you will need to find a specialized "tecnico" to draw up and present various plans and a proposed project...and a whole lot of paperwork. Whether or not you will be allowed to build will depend on many things like size and situation of land, environmental impact (including visual), the surrounding area, the classification of land, type of soil and topography, the size of existing buildings, the existing trees, the use of new buildings and more... is not an individual rule....You have to pay for the project up front...its a long process and is not guaranteed to come out favorably...
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Postby katy » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:49 pm

Maybe a couple of brown envelopes. 8)

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Postby dawncl » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:32 pm

Can you actually say brown envelopes in public?

melandsharon

Postby melandsharon » Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:28 pm

No it isn't, it is complicated, even when you are restoring a 16th century village house in need of total restoration.

We brought a house just off the main square in a small village, it has caused us a few headaches on the way, but at last i can see a light. To top it all after being very excited about unearthing a fantastic stone door way we were told by some up start in the ayuntamiento, not the architect he took photos for his collection, and was well pleased in what we had done, but a pen pusher who decided he needed to tell Cadiz that he wanted it cemented up again and painted white.

Well the out come was that the local historian was up in arms and went to the mayor, the house is now part of the cultural trail.

But i know the planing regs in England are just as hard you shouldn't leave your brains at the airport, my father lives on a farm with out buildings and there is no way my sister or i could have a house built on it, so why should it be any different.

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silver
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Postby silver » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:34 pm

just off the main square in a small village
That would be urban land..not rural.
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mhic
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Postby mhic » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:08 pm

I would just like to say that this is a REFORM NOT A NEW BUILD and that he has had plans drawn up and passed by the archtects college. The re-form is on a large ruin with roof IT IS NOT A NEW BUILD!!!!. Nor is it mine, I live very happily in Periana.

Does anyone know of a change in planning law or as I believe is it an excuse to cover up what?

Mhic

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Postby Beachcomber » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:39 pm

Junta de Andalucía? (spit)

Unless you want to build a new road, an apartment block, a trading estate or widen a drove - forget it.

So much for protecting the countryside and conserving its heritage!!.

mhic
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Postby mhic » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:49 pm

It seems my friend may need some certificate which states that he is farming the land he owns, but apparently they are not being issued at the moment. From what he has told me the place is planted with Olives and almonds and was being farmed until a few years before he bought it.

Oh yes and I think he may have made a typing error it should have read 25,000 sq metres.

Mhic.

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peteroldracer
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Postby peteroldracer » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:57 pm

There was some talk of La Vinuela (not too far from Periana) opening a Foreigners Dept at the Ayuntamiento - if this is kosher, your friend may get some guidance there?
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mhic
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Postby mhic » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:08 pm

Thanks, I'll pass that on to him.

Mhic.

teralin
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Postby teralin » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:08 pm

Isn't it still the case that if a new build/reform is carried out on rural land without attracting the wrong kind of attention, then after four years it can be made legal?

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Postby toddcl » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:25 pm

When we purchased our casa the garage and rooms underneath were not on the plan.

The Notary said as they had obviously been in situ prior to our purchase and they could assume they had been in place more than '4' years and therefore all was in order
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Postby El Cid » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:33 pm

It is certainly the case that no fines can be issued for illegal building after 4 years.

What is not clear to me is whether a building can be made legal if permission would never have been granted if a planning application had been made in the first place .

For example, if you build a house in the middle of a national park and get away with it for 4 years I cannot see that it would ever become legal.

Over to you, Beachcomber :D

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Postby campo babe » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:47 pm

Yes, very interested to find out the true position. If it is built on rustic land and has been there for 4 years I have been told it can then be registered with some paperwork from the town hall.

Please is this myth, urban legend, or in fact true?

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Postby Ambre Solaire » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:50 pm

El Cid

It is certainly the case that no fines can be issued for illegal building after 4 years

Would that be in all areas of the country ?

Regards

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Illegal builds

Postby Trooperman » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:39 pm

It´s all very confusing and it´s seemingly not axiomatic that each and every Ayuntamiento interprets the rules either as rigorously or as accurately as the next one. My own house, on an acre of land, had no permission - they didn´t bother round here with such trifles a few years back - and as part of the (ongoing) registration process, the previous owner was required by my lawyer to obtain a "Certficado Technico de Antiguedad" which, although I constantly fail to understand technical/legal Spanish, apparently says that it´s old enough now not to have required permission. Needless to say, the issuing Arquitecto didn´t look too closely at the details!
I suppose the moral of this is that there are ways around most problems out here!
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