Fifth time in 14 months government has raised tobacco tax

[Moving Soon]

I agree with Grouser that a far smaller proportion of young people smoke (tobacco anyway) these days - and I used to myself, gave up 25 years ago. Unfortunately they seem to have replaced one vice with another - there has been a lot in the British press lately about the alarming rise in the number of young people suffering liver damage due to binge drinking.

I can't understand these people who seem to have some kind of death wish to kill themselves slowly by smoking, drinking or eating to excess, why?

(And for anewlife's information, methadone is a heroin substitute used in the treatment of heroin addiction, nothing to do with cocaine.)

[Grouser]

Faire d'income, as I pointed out in my posting that figure will not include the lost productivity of the sick and the prematurely dead. It will probably also not include a great deal of health treatment where smoking is a contributing factor rather than the main cause. For example,people who are now living longer thanks to improved medical care are now dying of diseases like emphysema, which could well have been caused or exacerbated by smoking, despite the fact that they may have given up the habit many years ago.
Katy what on earth are you talking about? Not only is there plenty of treatment for smokers and smoking related diseases on the NHS, most medical practises will provide counselling and help to give up the evil weed.

[Faire d'Income]

Grouser - your point is well made but it's impossible to disseminate to what level smoking is a contributory cause in other illnesses and to what extent the NHS spends combating these diseases.

As for loss of productivity, again it's impossible to measure accurately but the simple fact of the matter is that revenue from tobacco is an essential part of our taxation system and without it, UK taxes would be even higher than they are today particularly as people insist on having a state funded welfare system, such as it is.

[Grouser]

Would agree that tobacco is an essential part of the current tax system, although not irreplaceable. However even if it does generate a surplus income that is no justification for special treatment for smokers as suggested by some contributors. There are several other taxes which hit only certain sections of society. Amongst them is the other 'sin' tax on alcohol, Inheritance tax, Stamp duty, Motoring taxes, tax on interest, and Capital gains tax. Vat of course will hit the pockets hardest of those that consume the most luxury goods.
I think it is complete balderdash to suggest that the government has an itinerary to keep people smoking because of the tax yield, especially as, with a little juggling what differential there is, if any, could easily be obtained from other sources: a few pence on drink for example.

[laswalkirias]

I do not think that people truly understand how hard it is to get out of the wicked weed addiction. After smoking heavily for 30 years I tried to do something about it after my mother died of a heart attack ( she smoked 30 cigarettes a day) and started chewing nicotine gum which did not work so I tried nicotine patches which helped a lot. However I find that I am now smoking again and am addicted to the nictine gum and the patches!!!!
I also have this compulsion to go to Stansted Airport every six weeks to board the flight to Malaga so that i can finance my habit with cheap Spanish cigarettes"!!
If anybody think this post is a joke I can assure you that it is true. I agree that the EU strategy to reduce smoking by taxation and other controls is great for protecting the youth of Europe from this discusting habit but for 50 somethings like me its literally closing the door too late. I am doomed!!!! I have to move to Spain to pay for this evil drug whilst the cigarette manufacturers laugh all the way to the bank as millions suffer.
I am sure that in 100 years time there will be no tobbacco industry and people will wonder at the stupidity and gullibility of people like me

[toddcl]

laswalkirias

I agree with most of what you say except that I don't think smoking will ever go away completely. The fact is that smoking is on the increase among teenagers and in particular girls [in UK].

Even if the governments made it a class 'A' drug people would still smoke in secret.

I'm an addicted smoker [40 years] but have never tried any other drug such as weed etc. What amazes me is that people knowingly start smoking this cr**p fully knowing that it can result in so many mental problems and lead to much worse addictions.

[Moving Soon]

Todd, I think your usual common sense has deserted you here.

I have never tried "weed" either (or any other kind of illegal substance, how boring I am). However, about 90% of my acquaintance have smoked dope for over 30 years on either a regular or occasional basis. It is not in itself addictive, I believe - it is the fact that it is normally smoked with tobacco that is the problem as nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs there is as you have found to your cost. They are all holding down responsible jobs, a good proportion of them being professional people, and none of them has mental problems. Some of them tried other things in their youth, acid and cocaine included, but none of them went on to use them in later life.

I do not think it leads to other addictions either - the danger is that most suppliers also deal in harder drugs and that's how people come into contact with them and some are tempted to try them, plus the dealers will push whatever makes them most profit. Legalise dope and you take that danger away.

Dope smokers will not become addicts any more than everyone who drinks alcohol will become alcoholics - some will, unfortunately, I think there is a proportion of people who have what you might call an "addictive personality" who will be susceptible.

Dope changes people's behaviour far less than alcohol does - as a non smoker I would far rather be in a room full of people who've had a few joints than I would be in the company of drunks when I am sober.

[toddcl]

Moving Soon

I used to think that dope was not a problem but having seen a friends son suffering from paranoia and being hospitalised in the loony bin, shook me up. He is now afraid of his own shadow and the specialist said it is all down the the brain damage from smoking weed.

[Moving Soon]

I would not presume to disagree with a consultant, and I too have heard of isolated instances of people who smoke dope developing mental illness - but then again, do not current statistics say that 1 in 6 of the population will experience some form of mental disorder at some stage in their lives? It would be difficult to say how much of that would be as a direct consequence of cannabis use.

I think it is wrong to imply that developing paranoid symptoms or other type of mental illness is a highly likely, never mind inevitable, consequence of using cannabis.

[Grouser]

Laswalkirias, I gave up when I was forty one, having smoked since I was eleven and been addicted since my early teens. I must admit I had two big incentives to give up. One was the fact that I like walking and I was beginning to find it painful going uphill and the second was that I had fallen in love with a non smoker. As I had tried many times before to give up without success (I usually cracked within a couple of days) I decided I would arm myself with as many weapons as possible. I went to the docs. and got the aforementioned nicotine chewing gum. A great friend of mine who was a heavily committed smoker amazed me when she told me she had given up with no problems whatsoever after going to a hypno therapist. I am extremely sceptical of most alternative medicine but was impressed enough to risk giving it a try.
At ten to midnight on the day before my appointment I rolled myself a massive spliff, smoked it, then thrust the tobacco and papers round the U bend of the toilet and flushed them away. I went off to see the hypno therapist. She talked to me about my habit and why I had decided I wanted to give up, then got me to lay on a couch and relax. She used the technique of talking me down some stairs and into a low lit room. She kept telling me how relaxed I was. In my head a voice was saying "No I'm not actually". After she had done this for a while she began to tell me all the reasons I had for giving up smoking, building them up in a pyramid of logic. Then she mentally walked me back up the stairs and left me to rest for a while. She supplied me with a back up tape and I left thinking 'Well that was forty quid down the drain'. In fact she had accomplished wonders. All the previous times I had tried to give up smoking my will power was undermined by an inner voice telling me it would be ok to have just one more, or similar nonsense. The Therapist had got rid of this by planting that pyramid of reason in my head. Part of the deal was that I could go back and see her as many times as necessary within a month at no extra charge. I did not need to revisit once, nor did I need the backup tape or nicotine chewing gum.
The hardest thing to cope with was that for many years I would dream that I was smoking and while I was doing so, have the feeling that something was terribly wrong. It would be when I stubbed the cigarette out that I would suddenly realise "Oh God, I've blown it, I smoked".
I thought that going to the pub with my mates would be difficult, it wasn't, except that after a while when I got my sense of smell back. I realised that my clothes and body smelt like an ashtray. The most missed f*gs were the ones I used to smoke when I would sit back from my work to contemplate it and decide what the next step would be. I would use the ritual of rolling and smoking as part of the thought process. For a long while it felt as though something was missing. Now I just sit or maybe have a cuppa. I was a hardened addict smoking at least a pack or half an ounce of tobacco a day. Hope this helps and inspires you to try again. If you succeed it will rejuvenate you.

[toddcl]

I accept your point that if the potential is already there who's to say it would not have manifested itself even without weed.

My own personal view is I don't trust it.

I tried smoking and got hooked.

I had a go at sex and got addicted.

Gambling was a close call and I just managed to kick it into touch before it did any damage.

Funnily enough though drink is no problem I'm as happy with a coffee as with any alcohol. Then again I crave for caffeine.

Food and spices are my biggest addiction. I eat not to ease hunger but just because there are so many fantastic tastes and smells.

Ive never tried any drugs other than cigarettes because I'm 99% sure I would be hooked.

[Alpujarra]

I had a go at sex and got 3 kids!

I tell you what, i'm sticking with the whacky backy in future!!

By the way, are you following me? I'm sure you are....

[Moving Soon]

Sounds very sensible.

I've never tried drugs or gambling, not through any puritanical motives but because I always preferred to waste my money on clothes, shoes, holidays and other such things. I could easily have been a shopaholic and at a time in my life when I was earning the most I was far more heavily in debt than I am now - luckily I came into a lump sum and cleared all my loans, overdraft and credit cards and have always paid my balance off in full at the end of each month since. Hard lesson learned.

I did manage to give up smoking (never more than 20 a day so maybe easier than it would be for a heavy smoker) but I put on half a stone in 3 weeks as I never stopped eating. The girl who shared my office at the time complained as it reeked of Polo mints instead of cigarettes - I got through several packets in a day. I've never managed to stay as skinny as I was when I smoked, but perhaps that's no bad thing, 9.5 stone at 5' 10" would look a bit haggard at my age, I think!

[Grouser]

Dope makes me paranoid. It took me many years to figure this out as the effect was not consistent, sometimes I would feel great. The last time I smoked it however, I was walking in the countryside and passing a friends house called in to see him. He was smoking a spliff at the time and offered it me. I told him I didn't smoke tobacco and he provided me with a pipe and I had a couple of tokes and went on my way. As I was walking I became more and more convinced that I had murdered my friend, at least one part of my brain did, the other was saying this is a ridiculous fantasy and fortunately this half won the battle. I managed to resist the urge to rush back and make sure he was alright. (Rest assured gentle reader, I have seen him since.)
I have a friend's son who has the same problem. Unfortunately for him he switched permanently that way and hears voices, including of all people George Bush, telling him what to do. His promising life is on hold, if not destroyed. Dope is very much different strokes for different folks and certainly people who may be susceptible to mental problems face increased risks if they smoke it.

[peteroldracer]

Well done grouser - your experience shows that there isn't only one way for everyone. I am not convinced that there is a chemical addiction (see my earlier posting to this thread before you dismiss me as a "never-smoked!), only that there is like with any drug a short-lived jolt of pleasure. Most of the reason for continued smoking is the sheer habit - I was a "telephone" smoker, a "stress" smoker, a "helps-me-relax" smoker as well of course as being a "I-must-have-a cig-with-this-drink" smoker! Self-image is a powerful force too - you are not you without a cigarette in your hand - and this was always the message in advertisements. The macho cowboy, the suave businessman, the tycoon with the cigar - never an image of a smelly person alone in a run-down bedsit with a hacking cough and inability to breathe after picking up their newspaper from the floor.............I wonder why?!
If you are money-driven, and live in the UK, try putting the money that you would have spent on cigs on the mantelpiece - preferably in 50p coins. At, say, £5 a pack per day, after a very short while you will have a mighty pile to reward yourself for your success - a day at a sports centre, dancing lessons, horse riding - something using energy. This will help give you a different endorphin buzz, and demonstrate how much your breathing will have improved.
After 3 years or so without smoking, there are still times when I really, really want a cigarette - but my self-image now is that of a non-smoker, and I will not tarnish that!
Good wishes to all who give up - I will not say good luck because luck doesn't come into it, and I will not say good wishes to those who try - because that suggests the possibility of failure, and you must not contemplate that!

[Grouser]

Peteroldracer, I assume you are referring to the giving up tobacco posting rather than the dope one. I agree that the addiction to nicotine is overstressed in comparison to the psychological side, which is the aspect that carries on plagueing you for much longer. Probably in many cases nicotine chewing gum and patches merely prolongue the agony of giving up by keeping that side of the addiction alive for longer. I don't think weaning works, you have to go cold turkey, (at least that was true in my case) but there is help out there to make the process more bearable.

[Valencia_Paul]

Yes they say the first 10 years are the worst after giving up - after that much time you can put it to the back of your mind as a distant memory.

I'm still chewing nicotine gum 10 months after this latest attempt at giving up. Last time I gave up I only used the gum for 3 days then managed not to smoke for 18 months. Truth is, you really have to want to stop smoking to be able to do it.

[Moving Soon]

Well I hate to tell you this, but 25 years after giving up there are still times when I find myself thinking "God, I could do with a cigarette!" - although I wouldn't actually want to light one up. I wonder if it ever goes away?

My worst times (as they were just after I gave up) are immediately after a meal or when out for a drink with friends.

Displacement activity is also good - just get up and do something, anything, to take your mind off it. I don't think my house has ever been as clean or my cupboards so tidy since I cracked the nicotine habit.

[Grouser]

Moving Soon at the risk of courting the devil, I would say it has for me (gone away that is) although I haven't given up for quite as long as you. The disturbing dreams stopped within ten years and I know I would now be a physical wreck or dead if I hadn't made that decision to give up and stuck with it. The big bonus is that after seven years, I believe, all your body cells have been replaced with new ones, only your brain cells remain with those memories. Your lungs are now all pink and healthy again apart from any scar tissue you may have inflicted on them. So just seven years gives you a new start. It might seem a long time but it whizzes by all too fast after your first half century.
Who knows, with the extra lease of life I may even manage to learn to speak proper Spanish at some point.

[nevada smith]

it's ten years...