Is cheating on?

[Unicorn]

A young Spanish person was telling me that they had just sat the first English Bachillerato and that most of the candidates were using their mobiles to answer the questions and that the teacher/invigilator was just fiddling on their phone. The one mistake the kids made was that their answers were about year 3 university level and so they were rumbled when papers were marked so they had to re-sit. If they had been smarter and not had such perfect answers they would have gotten away with it!

Some used their phones on the re-sit, having presumably learned how to cheat better.

Having asked around I hear using phones in exams is quite common and generally people seem to have a very lax view of cheating with the view that if you can do it and get away with it you do it. From both young and old, I have to say!

Am I living in a parallel universe because I think it is so wrong, both with the kids and the teacher?

Opinions would be welcome!

[Pamela1]

Well Unicorn the only people they are really cheating is themselves..

[wollie]

With all the technology these days i am thinking it should be possible to block all mobile signal from a given space.
My opinion "let the one who is without sin cast the first stone"

[Unicorn]

I think Wollie I would cast the first stone on the cheating in exams

Part of my point was that the invigilator either not noticing or not bothering to put a stop to it. This is a public exam, ultimately gateway to jobs/university/college.

And also, so you get to uni, say, on a cheat stream, and then find you can't hack it.(This apparently happens with many hot-housed private school kids in the UK who are tutored and coached within an inch of their lives at school, day and night, and then can't hack it when let loose on the their own.)

(As an aside, apropos of nothing I cite Gerald, Duke of Westminster (RIP) who went to Harrow, achieved 2 O Levels and then got into Sandhurst - money talks! Wonder if a kids with 2 GCSEs from Harrow Comp would've got in? Maybe if they had 2 GCSEs and were a duke, no probs.)

My problem is that the kids think it's OK as part of the now, now, now generation and not really thinking ahead. Instant information access and no knowledge required.

[gus]

When I saw the heading I thought it was going to be about a cheating spouse!!
What a relief:-)

[wollie]

That's what i thought as well.

My comment really was meant to reflect the standards accepted today.
Cheating in life, business, marriage etc is very much the norm.
These cheating teenage/20s students are reflecting the standards we have set for them.

[Unicorn]

So cheat your way through university, cheat your way through an engineering degree, design a bridge or a house a shopping centre...........watch everything fall down

We wait to see whether the CPS has the freedom to take to court the cheating Tories, two dozen or so, The Tories who may have cheated in the last election allowing chancer Dave to call the referendum which could all turn out to be illegal.
And Boris seems to have the Royal Flush of cheating but the press love him so rarely point this out.

[maureenscot]

Something worrying in papers today. A 52 year old woman got done for taking driving tests for at least 5 other woman.

[markwilding]

Funnily enough, this often is a subject in my classes and actually it came up today, I often ask the engineers I teach if they cheated in exams and all have at some point or another. Scratching formulas on the side of a biro is a favourite with a surprising result. It takes so long to do that they learn the formula in the process and end up being able to answer the question without the help of the pen.

Children do important exams so regularly here, every three months, that cheating is a way of life at schools so they start early. It's the biggest argument against exam based educational reforms in the UK to have the Spanish style system where passing the exam become the only the objective, not the leaning.

A friend who teaches medicine at a local university often tells me of his frustration when students ask for advice on the technic to pass exams and his answer is always the same. learn!

[jhonie99]

The Brits living in Spain must be the most naive and gullible people in existence.

Spaniards are about the most dishonest people on the planet. Why can't the guiris see it. Or is it that they don't want to see it, pretending that Spain is some utopia.

Thieves and liars sums them (Spanish) up perfectly. It's a way of life.

Actually, I thought this was going to be about cheating also. Yesterday, my OH told me that his sister's partner has married an old man that she has been caring for, in order to get a decent widow pension when he dies. His sister doesn't have an issue with it.
That is the sort of trash that Spaniards really are.

[wollie]

jhonie99

Thieves and liars sums them (Spanish) up perfectly. It's a way of life.
I have to say i have never found Spain to be like this.

Marriage of convenience is a fact of life and as they say "love is blind"


markwilding
It's the biggest argument against exam based educational reforms in the UK to have the Spanish style system where passing the exam become the only the objective, not the leaning.

I am not clear as to the differences though i am interested?

Thank you both equally.

[chrissiehope]

King William's College on the Isle of Man had the right idea - every year they would set the pupils a General Knowledge test just before the Xmas holidays. They answered as much as they could (the questions were very cryptic) and then during the holidays they were allowed to research the questions. Returning to school, they re-sat the test, bringing in whatever reference books they wanted. The whole point was to encourage learning by research
The test is still published in the Guardian every year, althought taking the test is now optional for pupils. If you fancy a go - go to https://www.kwc.im/general-knowledge-quiz - good luck
It was a family tradition for many years, & Boxing day would find the floor strewn with encyclopaedias, atlases, dictionaries etc, and even then we would probably only get half the answers !

[Unicorn]

For me it would question qualifications that many people hold if over the last what, 15 years, if the cheating is so rife. I have a friend who is a top sparks at London Airport and he says the younger ones coming in have no hands on experiences, they just seem to photo everything. It is not my field but I think I may worry when the 'experienced'ones retire, who were apprenticed etc.

I saw the other day an ad for an apprentice for a coffee shop, latte maker!
Is that where we are at now?

[markwilding]

I run my young people's classes in a similar way but it's quite difficult to get them to review work if they believe it doesn't benefit them with an exam result.

When we do a review test, they can look back into the reference area of the text book or to their notes at any time. This allows them to find anthing they have forgotten or check anything they aren't sure about. It's the lazy ones who tend not to do this

For me it's not about exams, it's about learning. The fact is, they only do an exam when they have the level required to pass because it's the only way to pass the type of exam I enter them into. Obviously, revision helps but the key is they retain the knowledge they have learnt.

At the same time I expect them to get everything more more less correct in the mini tests, which is only really possible if they review while they are doing it, which is different from school where 50 per cent is a pass which allows students with a tiny bit of knowledge along with a little bit of cheating and luck to pass exams with almost no level.

Then occasionally I give them tests to check level with no revision so I can assess their actual level.

[chrissiehope]

I should probably have also said that the pupils were assessed by comparing 'before & after' results, which indicated how much effort they had made and how much they had retained

[BENIDORM]

I personally detest any form of cheating stealing etc...It's a road to nowhere.

I did cheat once , when I was 10 years old ..
It was in an egg and spoon race, I stuck the egg on the spoon with chewing gum.
I did it to beat a bully who always won everything by bullying and cheating, so I 'got my own back'
Later I was chastised by my teacher who spotted what I'd done, but said nothing as she saw what I was trying to do.
She told me that 2 wrongs do not equal 1 right....
I have always remembered her wise words.

Regards,
Gordon

[ebbnflow]

Cheating does seem to be far more prevalent these days, with technology and indifference paving the way.
I'm not sure that the modern classwork backed assessment system is any better though. When I went through school I doubled up on several subjects taking both CSE and O-Level. Without cheating I scored high with the O's and only so so with the CSEs.
For cheats greater vigilance and some anti-tech would solve exam time.
As for Spanish being greater cheats in a way this could be true. With their past in Franco days parents and grandparents may have handed down a "survival guide" to modern generations, with or without the intention to make cheating acceptable in its own right.
Having said that, just sipping a coffee at a cafe near a school at home time, I often hear the English kids boasting about cheating easily whereas the Spanish kids don't seem to mention it. Cultures differ.

[Manchesteral]

In the end who are they cheating ?