Coronavirus

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olive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby olive » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:51 am

It is very interesting how different countries are tackling the crisis. Read about the Dutch approach today for example https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52135814

All along , I suspect that the tacticians, advising the government ,are playing the populace in a grim "game" of managing the death rate. Any well informed government could have taken "best practice" from other countries further up the curve than themselves to stop transmission in its tracks. For example it isn't rocket science to tell all supermarkets to adopt a policy of "wear gloves, sanitise each trolley, only one family member, a one way system around the isles, certain times for vulnerable folk, basic pre packed parcels with key items, pay by card" the list is quite large. And yet the local Sainsburys, on Friday 3rd April ,had a huge queue of folks in the car park for the 8 till 9 a.m. old gits/vulnerable shopping. Admittedly two metres apart. That was the first day of one family member shopping. People were quite disgruntled at one having to sit out the experience. No disinfected trolleys, still using coins to get them, no gloves handed out, hardly anyone wearing a mask and after the first isle folk darting around and backtracking - life as normal in fact. Staff not wearing gloves or masks. Of course business is king and the supermarkets don't want to lose loyal customers by unpopular policies. I shall not be going back in a hurry. I need to rethink my shopping strategy once again in the absence of availability of large supermarket deliveries.

I did get to the head of the queue after several days to register with Morrisons. I made sure I was at the computer terminal at the final countdown , in case you got timed out after say 10 minutes of not registering. Put one item in my basket and went straight to slots. Predictably nothing available. Might just do the 65 mile round trip to Tesco's nearest Click and Collect, walk around the old town and harbour and fish and chips and five pints.

Today was the first time I have heard anyone mention an exit strategy for the crisis. No detail of course. My suspicion is that communities (especially those with a lower infection rate) will get back to a degree of normality but with enforced limited travel to other communities. So for example Antequera but no travel to Archidona or Malaga. Not sure how that would be enforcable in a big conurbation such as Malaga itself. The bigger question of course will be country to country travel. e.g. France to/from Spain or Italy to/from Austria.

Maybe all that is just wishful thinking on my behalf.

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Wicksey
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Wicksey » Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:28 pm

Lyric wrote:As is normal on Sunday I can see the columns of smoke from at least four bonfires, all at second properties. They must have self ignited.
Jose has just passed going to his country house as he does every morning.
I will probably be arrested if I take rubbish to the bins.
We were just saying the same. Cars have been coming past all morning, some we don't recognise as our usual neighbours. Just about every campo weekend house we can spy on has people at it. It certainly seems like business as usual up here.

Olive, when I looked at the Tesco online shopping site, click and collect slots had to be booked the same way as delivery slots, and none were available. I had been considering arranging an order to be collected by taxi and taken to my FIL's, but it wasn't to be. Iceland came up trumps though, although I did have to say the customer was over 70/vulnerable in order to proceed, and I did have to keep refreshing the page all day until a delivery slot popped up. I'm relieved that he's got a pretty good stock of food in for the moment, although they didn't have any tinned soup or fruit for him. I wish I could send them a food parcel as there's no shortages here. Last week a lot of food in Mercadona and Lidl was reduced as they don't seem to be very busy.

Miro
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Miro » Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:42 pm

Pamela1 wrote: It just takes one or two to be seen taking measures and those who never thought about doing so start to think that they better do the same.
I think social media has a lot to answer for - although I appreciate that no platform can control or account for the idiocy of it's users. I saw a post from a Spanish friend the other day, which appeared genuine, asking if it was true that people are starting to withdraw their money from the banks; I immediately thought, oh no, if this gets round, people will start withdrawing their money from the banks. The stories circulating about 5G technology spreading (or causing) the virus are another example of herd stupidity.

The mainstream media doesn't help, sometimes, either. I found myself wondering this morning, why are broadcasters still issuing weather forecasts? At the same time as our illustrious leaders are imploring us to stay indoors, the news channels every 30 minutes are gleefully telling us how nice the weather is out there :wtf:
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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peteroldracer
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby peteroldracer » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:21 pm

I cannot understand why anyone would hold back from reporting anyone apparently flouting the lockdown. If they saw someone near then waving around a pistol, or a sword they surely would immediately ring 062 and report it? Anyone coming into your area is a very real potential threat to life. Report them, and forget the stupid schoolday “must not grass/snitch” attitudes.
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Miro
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Miro » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:32 pm

Following on from my previous post, the same Fakebook friend has just posted a b&w photo alledgedly showing a family during the Spanish flu pandemic c.1918. Six family members, all wearing masks. One of them is holding a cat, which also appears to be wearing a face mask.
How long before that goes viral (no pun intended) and people start abandoning their pets? :roll:
Don't worry about what people think, they don't do it very often

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katy
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:35 pm

Would anything happen though Peter ? Depends who they are, Cousin of Alcalde, Son of Civil Guard etc. Expats could also bring a few problems on themselves by denouncing.

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peteroldracer
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby peteroldracer » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:46 pm

The problem with corruption is that it feeds on people allowing it. In this situation surely the offenders should be regarded by all - expats and spanish - as pariahs. The police here are publicising the numbers to ring, both for/in Spanish and in English asking for help. Our town and several others locally are completely locked off by military, Guardia Civil and policia local, with no travel between them allowed - just as it should be IMHO.
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:52 pm

Social media has a lot to answer for, yes, but idiotic posts are put up by idiotic people to be believed by idiots.

The mainstream news, both the papers (on-line) and the TV, are reporting trivia and rubbish about people's 'experiences' in almost everything related to the virus but not actually having it or knowing anyone who has it. They have nothing new to say so they churn out total, mind-numbing waffle. The only good bits are the daily reports from No 10 and those from Sanchez and Trump's address last night was interesting. The only good news channel is Al Jazeera because, believe it or not, there are other things going on in the world that are also important but maybe main-stream news thinks people can only take one crisis at a time.

Anyway, to prove my point about the current level of 'news', there's this gem from British Vogue which I read while having breakfast this morning:

https://www.vogue.co.uk/beauty/article/ ... pubic-hair

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:00 pm

Was an interesting article in the telegraph yesterday "Sweden's risky experiment may yet prove Britain wrong."
Their figures estimate that much less intensive care beds will be needed and will have the lowest number of hospital beds per thousand in Europe they believe they can cope. They are also starting to release figures of how many died "FROM" the virus rather than "WITH" it. This has been commented on by other countries, Ferguson UK stated that three quarters of deaths would probably died within a year anyway. Other experts say other type coronavirus's usually die off at this time of the year anyway although it will return in the winter.

Right now most hospitals in UK are quieter than normal with only 1 in ten beds taken by coronavirus victims. A&E visits 50% down as are health centre visits. Our health centre informs that only 1 patient at a time will be allowed in the waiting area, with an average of 5 GPs and about 3 nurses there I am puzzled as to how it works. Initial consultations are being carried out over the phone.

We shall not know until it is over but there is a lot of hype and fake news.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby elusive » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:11 pm

The only good news channel is Al Jazeera.
---------------

Totally agree. Been watching it for many years. So many other things going on in the world (at any point in time) yet you get the same few stories in the MSM. Normally totally agenda ridden. They only tell you what they want you to know. Ie what fits the agenda/opinion they want to push. Hoping your to lazy to actually do your own research.

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Wicksey
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Wicksey » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:16 pm

katy wrote:Would anything happen though Peter ? Depends who they are, Cousin of Alcalde, Son of Civil Guard etc. Expats could also bring a few problems on themselves by denouncing.
As I've already said on here, one of the neighbours is a Guardia Civil officer (he was up here in his GC car with a colleague the other day unloading his shopping bags from the boot ..... bet he didn't get that from the nearest shop!)

Sweden only has a population of around 10m and a density of 23 people per km2 compared to the UK's 279 people per km2. I'm not sure anyone knows what is best for these countries as their circumstances are different and this pandemic is something we've not encountered in recent times. Also in the Telegraph yesterday was an article about coronavirus testing in Iceland, but that's even more sparsely populated (and 3 people per km2). Very difficult to know who is right and whether strict lockdown will work long term once things start to get back to normal and people start to mix again.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:40 pm

Yes population does have to be taken into account. Quoting USA with 330 million and another country with 48 million is different. I am very sceptical about stats coming out of some Asian countries and some African too.
I used to go to Malmo university a lot when working and the place is as bad as you see in any run down city area anywhere...a dump. wonder if it is their hotspot.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:45 pm

elusive wrote:The only good news channel is Al Jazeera.
---------------

Totally agree. Been watching it for many years. So many other things going on in the world (at any point in time) yet you get the same few stories in the MSM. Normally totally agenda ridden. They only tell you what they want you to know. Ie what fits the agenda/opinion they want to push. Hoping your to lazy to actually do your own research.
Not short of criticism but then it is owned by Qatar.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:13 pm

katy wrote:Yes population does have to be taken into account. Quoting USA with 330 million and another country with 48 million is different. I am very sceptical about stats coming out of some Asian countries and some African too.
I used to go to Malmo university a lot when working and the place is as bad as you see in any run down city area anywhere...a dump. wonder if it is their hotspot.
Compared to other Nordic countries, Sweden's infection and death rate is much higher. Sweden’s death rate per million inhabitants is 37, compared with 28 in Denmark, 12 in Norway and 4.5 in Finland.

It was always a high risk strategy and it doesn't look as though it has paid off because they are reported in the Guardian to be about to impose lockdowns. Meanwhile Spain has seen it the rise of infections fall to the lowest new cases since the start of the crisis. The number of deaths are dropping little by little as well.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby elusive » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:17 pm

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020 ... hours.html

Goverment stats showing alot less deaths etc.

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peteroldracer
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby peteroldracer » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:54 pm

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5EAE8AD1
One pulled yesterday, fined and sent packing back to where they came from.
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Pamela1 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:22 pm

Yes Miro, agree about social media and also media stories, truth is it's quite scary what many people do tend to believe. I get so so angry when the likes of the Daily Express are flippant with their headlines, WW3 and Shock horror..Totally irresponsible, but they get away with it..I hate the influence they have on people who are less likely to delve further into anything they read and sad to say there are many people in this category...You only have to read a twisted headline and go straight to the comments section to witness the many who have let their mouths run away with them based on what is nothing but distorted click bait.

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:30 pm

It begs the question then how powerful the 3 and 4 word slogans are in the areas of life where the consequences affect everybody.

'Take back control', Make America great again', 'for the many, not for the few' and 'strong and Stable' can mean different things to different people.
However, can 'Stay at home' which is clear and concise, be misinterpreted?

On the other hand, these are also likely to be just a few idiots who think the rules don't apply to them.
In the last few days of class some of the younger students were excited by the fact that were not going to have to go the school while making plans for the meetups with their friends. The municipal police soon put paid to that on the first Friday and Monday

olive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby olive » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:17 pm

Stay at home only applies to the idiots. Scotlands chief medical officer dishes out the advice but then ignores it

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:22 pm

Idiots on the sense that 'the rules don't apply to me.'


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