Coronavirus

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Miro
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Miro » Tue May 26, 2020 3:51 pm

That's why increasingly "excess deaths" (over the same period for previous years' average) are being reported by various media. Current figures appearing for UK are around 55-60,000. Not sure if there's an official source for this figure; also, any comparison to other countries' excess death figures should presumably be shown as "per million of population" to have any relevance.
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markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Tue May 26, 2020 5:41 pm

I saw a graph on the news at lunchtime today that the death rate is much higher than would normally be expected to be.

It would have been impossible to see a difference at the start of the crisis to compare the death rate. it had to be done with prediction based on statistics. It's only now that we can differentiate between the two figures

Beachcomber
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Beachcomber » Tue May 26, 2020 7:51 pm

The disarray in the ranks of the Spanish authorities abounds with the resignation of two high ranking Guardia Civil officers who are in direct conflict with the Minister of the Interior:

https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20200526/d ... 4878.shtml

This, in conjunction with the scandal of the manipulated figures of deaths from (or with) coronavirus, doesn't bode well for the government:

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020 ... -2000.html

Doctors, both in Spain and abroad, were complaining weeks ago that they were being forced to attribute deaths to the virus when no such connection existed and now we also learn that the figures were being doubled up, ie one death being counted as two both from the virus.

At the same time the number of actual cases were being deliberately underestimated which had the effect, when compared with the inflated number of deaths, of making the death rate seem much higher than it really is.

It will be interesting to see the spin that the government apologists put on this.

olive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby olive » Tue May 26, 2020 8:16 pm

CV19 is the new Brexit. Great opportunity for politicians to score cheap and not so cheap points in their bid to become the encumbents and enjoy the trappings. Ditto for the media who no longer report news but forecast tomorrows news today. It is all a bit depressing. Sadly we will have years of analysis and mud slinging to come with CV19.

Pamela1
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Pamela1 » Wed May 27, 2020 10:36 pm

I'm afraid the CV19 subject could turn the tide in the favour of many political parties around the world. Some for the better and some for the worst.

Manchesteral
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Manchesteral » Thu May 28, 2020 12:39 pm

Pamela1 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 10:36 pm
I'm afraid the CV19 subject could turn the tide in the favour of many political parties around the world. Some for the better and some for the worst.
There's truth in what you say Pamela, however in retrospect I doubt any government in the world could have dealt with it, this pandemic hit like a tornado, the fact that so many countries have been affected in the same manner with very high infection rates tells us of the unprecedented power of this virus.

The opposition parties, whoever or wherever are seeking to take the moral and political high ground, when in reality nobody would have coped. On the one hand you have governments saying, stay home, don't go out unless it's necessary, on the other you have hoards of people who demand their freedom, going to the beach etc, it's clearly a no win situation and of course self entitled people such as Cummings don't help.

My gut feeling is that the virus will never go away and will only loosen it's grip when it's done with us !

katy
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Thu May 28, 2020 1:21 pm

Yes political in most countries now. I think the lockdowns should stop because no one is stopping those who want to isolate do so. Statistically for those under 60 deaths are very low, lots of scaremongering and on TV said today that analysing deaths in 4 European countries (including UK) non virus deaths have also risen sharply. So maybe the lockdown is bringing other problems.

Beachcomber
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Beachcomber » Thu May 28, 2020 2:11 pm

Much of the increase in deaths is attributable to people who are seriously ill from other non-covid illnesses, having been scared into not going to hospital for treatment then their deaths were used to prove an increase in the number of deaths compared to last year.

Meanwhile the World Health Organisation is putting a stop to the use of hydroxychloroquine but according to the lunchtime news on TVE doctors in Spain say that it is having a positive effect on patients and that they will continue to use it.

It is obvious that the WHO and the UN, together the likes of Bill Gates and other parties with vested interests, do not want it or any other drug to be successful because they are intend to corner the market with a drug produced by American 'Big Pharma' in connivance with 'Big Tech' which will have goodness knows what in it.

A professor from Pittsburgh University who was researching a covid vaccine was murdered and all his work destroyed.

Two weeks ago scientists at Oxford University were excitedly stating that the were on the verge of developing a vaccine then last week they backtracked and said there was only a 50-50 chance of success. Were they got at and threatened?

The globalists are planning a new world order with one worldwide government, digital currency and no national governments or borders with a bunch of unelected presidents, vice presidents and other toadies and hangers on who will have helped them to achieve this aim. A bit like the European Union but a hundred times worse. It was all taking too long so they introduced Covid-19 into the world population to speed things up a bit.

As with everything else that contradicts the mainstream narrative all this is being touted as 'conspiracy theories' and antisocial media 'Thought Police' are censoring anyone who dares to voice concerns but just a tiny bit of research will make you think twice.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Thu May 28, 2020 2:38 pm

There is certainly something very, very strange going on and all the parts of the puzzle do not add up to a whole picture. That the Wuhan scientists mysteriously 'died' after blowing the whistle on the virus is not surprising. However, some of what is going on in places such as the 'Land of the Free' in the USA is quite chilling.

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Thu May 28, 2020 2:40 pm

Oh my god!!
Do you really believe all that or are you winding us all up?

I'm going to stick with what I've been told by actual real life doctors in Spain if that's OK with you?

The one argument I can't get my head around is the one about because deaths are lower in the under 60s, we should see the rest as collateral damage.

I far I can see deaths are much higher than normal. for April. The number of deaths for 2020 have already overtaken the entire year's number for 2018 in the UK and as one doctor friend said to me yesterday this is the main indicator of the devastating affects of Covid 19 and no matter how you spin this statistic, it is really difficult to argue with that fact . He also pointed out that that certain types have deaths such as work road traffic accidents and are much lower than normal.

He also explained to me the reason why the figure were adjusted. The government wanted only to include those who had tested positive, using the more reliable testing method for Coved 19 to be included in the figures. He maintains that many of the 2,000 had probably died from it anyway.
Last edited by markwilding on Thu May 28, 2020 3:42 pm, edited 7 times in total.

K&LTupper
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby K&LTupper » Thu May 28, 2020 2:46 pm

:lolno: Its all out there on the internet....everything to fit with every single agenda. Elvis is still alive and working as a gardener at Graceland....must be true...says so on the internet.
Good job the internet wasn't about in the 80's when it was only via newspapers that we got all the crackpot theories regarding the Aids/HIV crisis. None of them have proved to have been based in fact all these years on.

Beachcomber
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Beachcomber » Thu May 28, 2020 3:28 pm

Presumably Sanidad is basing its decision to continue with the use of Hydroxychloroquine on the opinions of 'real life doctors in Spain':

https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20200527/s ... 5034.shtml

"No hemos recibido ninguna señal de alerta de ninguno de los estudios que se están llevando a cabo en territorio nacional", señala la agencia, que recalca que tanto la cloroquina como la hidroxicloroquina "tienen un perfil de eficacia y seguridad bien conocido".

This reflects the findings of Didier Raoult the French microbiologist whom the World Health Organisation also tried to discredit.

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Thu May 28, 2020 3:58 pm

I asked my doctor friend this exact question yesterday. He actually told me anyone advising anyone to take it before it has been proven to help is very dangerous. At the moment it is deemed to cause more harm than good.

The fact that they having trials doesn't support your argument at all. It just means they are having trials nothing more nothing less.

Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Thu May 28, 2020 4:39 pm

Oh my god!!
Do you really believe all that or are you winding us all up?
Believe what, Mark? That there is something very strange going on? Well, yes and so do about 95% of people on the planet.

Do you not think it strange that we still do not know where this virus came from and what it is made of and how it affects certain groups of people and not others. Do you really not think about things for yourself or just rely on your 'doctor friend' for what to think? I have an actual research medical scientist in my family and she tells me that they are working hard on all sorts of leads and possibilities but still have zilch concrete things to tell us including if you can get it twice, or not, and if it will come back, or not, etc, etc. As I wrote: we have lots of bits but no whole picture. If you do not believe that then that's up to you but it's blinding obvious to most people.

katy
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Thu May 28, 2020 5:47 pm

A Doctor friend...makes a change from a Nurse :roll: Doctors treat patients, they are not Scientists or statisticians as those know real Doctors are aware. Infact many Doctors are not even on the front line anymore. The Doctors and Nurses sure have a lot Of time to spend on Facebook. The deaths are alarming when there are 13,000 deaths more in the same period than last year who didn’t have the virus. Victims of the lockdown.

The much derided drug that Trump used has been used for some time throughout Europe, uK stashed 37 million pounds of it,

An expert in Australia says it is impossible that the virus can be transferred from animals to humans therefore it is man made.

elusive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby elusive » Thu May 28, 2020 5:58 pm

https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news ... 43000.html

43k more deaths between this march and may compaired to last year. Also talks aboit spikes at times of flu and heatwave only 2 & 3 k respectfully.

We will prob see a spike in deaths in the future from ppl not getting cancer screening on time and when they did it was to late and some now who may have had small heart attacks or mini strokes and never went which then led to ones that killed them.

The virus will prob come and go like most. Like with ebola. Every so often you hear of flare ups in africa. And having it,like with most will give you some type of level of immunity

olive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby olive » Thu May 28, 2020 6:39 pm

Lavanda wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 4:39 pm
Oh my god!!
Do you really believe all that or are you winding us all up?
Believe what, Mark? That there is something very strange going on? Well, yes and so do about 95% of people on the planet.

Do you not think it strange that we still do not know where this virus came from and what it is made of and how it affects certain groups of people and not others. Do you really not think about things for yourself or just rely on your 'doctor friend' for what to think? I have an actual research medical scientist in my family and she tells me that they are working hard on all sorts of leads and possibilities but still have zilch concrete things to tell us including if you can get it twice, or not, and if it will come back, or not, etc, etc. As I wrote: we have lots of bits but no whole picture. If you do not believe that then that's up to you but it's blinding obvious to most people.
We had it confirmed here on the 15th May that you cannot get it twice.
"Olive, ^^
It would be the only virus ever to have existed that the human body is not immune, once exposed, infected and recovered, so we should assume that people who have had it are immune.
The South Koreans first though that people could be re-infected as they had 91 cases where re-infection was suspected. However, that have done further research and realised these were all problems with false test results."

maybe I am going to have to go back to gloves, masks and keeping 2 metres away.

olive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby olive » Thu May 28, 2020 6:54 pm

Here is a political thought. Today we were discussing the young in Spain who have struggled through the last ten years not having enough money to leave home, get married and have a family. We fear they are back at the start of a further ten years struggle. Certainly where we live the few jobs that came available were taken up in quite an orderly fashion with the young low down the pecking order.

Todays news. Nissan car plant in Catalonia is to close as the car industry restructures worldwide. Surprisingly the one in Sunderland is staying open. In France Macron has pledged 8 billion for the automotive industry to move towards EV's. Not sure how that sits with EU anti competition laws and subsidies.

Earlier we were discussing buying local ( Spain or perhaps even Europe). I can see nationalism coming back as buying Seat for example would guarantee jobs just as we had moved on from that. Hopefully Sanchez will announce similar measures for Spains car industry. Spain is the 2nd largest car manufacturer in Europe and the 12th in the world. The industry employs around 300,000 directly and many more indirectly.

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Thu May 28, 2020 7:04 pm

So why wouldn't I have doctor friends? I suppose it's a good way to rubbish an argument However, I actually know quite a few and that's not taking into account that I teach 3 as well as a scientist and they weren't the the husband and wife who are both doctors who I joined up with on my walk.

I started this thread after an hour long conversation with a doctor who I teach English to

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Thu May 28, 2020 7:15 pm

olive wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 6:39 pm

It would be the only virus ever to have existed that the human body is not immune, once exposed, infected and recovered, so we should assume that people who have had it are immune.


maybe I am going to have to go back to gloves, masks and keeping 2 metres away.

The problem is there is no evidence either way . Of course, this is another question that most people assume to be true, but the problem is if it mutates. However, I've also read that viruses that mutate are not are strong.


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