Coronavirus

[Paulinmalaga]

What? The bits where he is back tracking on what he said clearly in a Radio interview? Yes that was definitely a ha ha moment

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... mprovement


https://www.thelocal.se/20200603/sweden ... and-errors

[Lavanda]

We will have to disagree and leave it at that, Paul.

[K&LTupper]

Saw this Tweet from Jim Pickard the Chief Political Correspondent of the Financial Times. Not really known for "lazy or sensationalistic Journalism"

[Lavanda]

That explains it in a nutshell. That’s why some EU countries are not willing to have tourists from the UK. Spain does need tourists and tourist money but, at what cost?

[markwilding]

Why ask the obvious?
The costs are known. The damage to economies and Spain's tourist industry will be devastating.

However, The fact that Spain lockdown was too slow meant more deaths than were necessary. If the measures had not been taken many more would have died. It's about a choice. life or the economy.

I choose life.

[Manchesteral]

Regarding the Swedish situation I think it might be one year before we have a clear view of their economy, Their closest neighbours, Denmark, Norway and Finland have all said that they will close their borders with Sweden until the virus situation has been clarified and controlled, who will they do business with ?

[Lavanda]

The other EU countries? Is the EU falling apart to the extent countries can close borders? I thought there were no borders? Maybe that’s a new thread and maybe post-Covid-19 we really will live in a new world? However, by that logic, who is going to trade with the UK? What about Spain with its high fatality toll and Portugal with its much lower toll? Will the border be open on 1st July? So much to worry about ...

I think some decisions are political rather than medical. Now, to whom can I close my borders?

[olive]

Closing borders doesn’t mean not doing trade.

In the UK ( for example) the shelves have been well stocked with Spanish salad produce throughout the last 12 weeks. Lorry drivers are exempt. The borders are closed to Juan Bloggs wanting to go to another country for a holiday or to see a friend.

Meanwhile Brussels is still trying to have borders open , within Europe , by the end of June.

[elusive]

All of andalucia including malaga and granada have moved to phase 3. from el pais

[katy]

There seems to be a struggle right now between the lockdowners and the Economists. I reckon borders will be mostly open by July for holidaymakers...if anyone wants to go. I know there is the EHIC card but i still think insurance is advisable and will there be any? Could be stuck in Spain, Greece etc for months if not fit to fly, would be costly.

Don't fancy all the restrictions either. Imagine having to book your time for a swim in the pool or queues for everything.

[Beachcomber]

Or even an appointment to go to the beach:

https://www.elmundo.es/viajes/espana/20 ... b460b.html

[markwilding]

While Spain might lose a lot of international tourism, It might also see a spike in tourism from within Spain. We have fights booked for the UK for the end of July but we won't go if the 2 week quarantine is still in place. We haven't got a hotel booked yet but hotel prices are very attractive. If we don't go, We will probably use the week to go to go on day trips or a mini break in Spain

As for our main summer break, it was our original plan to go to Vienna but that has been put on hold and we will probably go somewhere in Andalucía or maybe Mallorca. I don't remember exactly who told me but I might have read it on here or maybe my wife mentioned it but i heard that bookings holiday lets in certain areas of Spain are way up on a some weeks ago

[katy]

Yes Mike probably be a spike from staycationers. However majority of Spaniards don't holiday abroad so maybe little difference overall.
This from INE. re where do Spanish holiday.

El 90,4% de los viajes tenían como destino principal el territorio nacional, con un incremento del 1,7% respecto al cuarto trimestre de 2018. Por su parte, los viajes al extranjero, que representan el 9,6% del total, disminuyen un 6%.

[katy]

Saw this Tweet from Jim Pickard the Chief Political Correspondent of the Financial Times. Not really known for "lazy or sensationalistic Journalism"

It is HIS Tweet but not what the Financial Times is saying officially. A good example of how fake news travels.

In fact some of the data in foreign countries is so dodgy that, according to the FT’s data guru John Burn-Murdoch, if England had adopted Spain’s new ‘method’, it would have reported just 20 new deaths yesterday. England is equivalent to 13% of the population of the EU, and yet would appear to have just 6% of the death rate, if it adopted Spain’s manipulated reporting…

If anyone reads on past his tweet to the comments you will see they are saying it is fake news. Infact one poster asks if he has read the FT the paper he works for.

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/12 ... 4710064128

[K&LTupper]

I did read some of the comments as you suggest and the one that screamed out "Fake News" was good old trusted for accuracy Guido Fawkes as tweeted by Adam Wildman and many responses when you go deeper such as:

Fionna O'Leary, 🕯
@fascinatorfun
·
Jun 4
Replying to
@wildman_adam
and
@PickardJE
“Desperate man relies on Guido to support his contention”.

I expect there’ll be small variations & reporting delays but not any that overcome the big picture.

Our deaths are shockingly high
We have performed markedly worse that too many other countries.

And why not...
@obiwan_thekobi
Replying to
@wildman_adam
and
@PickardJE
Said the man using guido as a source. Laughably pathetic.

And my particular favourite.

dodge
@ianlloydrogers
·
15h
Replying to
@wildman_adam
and
@PickardJE
Oooooh I love that smell of desperation when somebody shares a Guido article with a straight face.

And on it goes ad nauseam link and counter link to match any agenda and suit any narrative. Its all there on the internet you dont even have to look that hard to "rubbish" any article written or posted by any individual or organisation. Who do you trust, who do you believe when there is always someone with too much time on their hands to search for an opposing view just for reasons best know to themselves. Strange world, even stranger people roam it.

BTW Its 28 degrees and sunny here today but I'm sure someone could poo poo it and say well its only 27 by this weather site....FAKE WEATHER

[katy]

Cherry picking. people can read it for themselves. Also Ed Conway from SKY news agrees with the (Official FT) Here he comments on your fake news screen shot

Ed Conway on Twitter
Be v careful with this
-UK does NOT have more daily #COVID19 deaths than whole of EU
-What u see here are different reporting standards
-UK lumps together deaths from previous weeks lately confirmed as COVID
-Other countries do it v differently: eg Spain https://ft.com/content/77eb7a13-cd26-41 ... 6708b43673

[K&LTupper]

Ed Conway Tweets figures willy nilly from virtually every available source. Think I'll take Mr Pickards analysis over Ed.

Also anyone who constantly uses the word "Uptick" in their Tweets instead of "increase" is a right muppet...just my opinion

[katy]

Feel free to believe what you want. Ed Conway is economics editor, additionaly the FT's data expert wrote the official line. Pickard only wrote on Twitter and he is a political correspondent, says it all for me.

[markwilding]

The disarray in the ranks of the Spanish authorities abounds with the resignation of two high ranking Guardia Civil officers who are in direct conflict with the Minister of the Interior:

https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20200526/d ... 4878.shtml

This, in conjunction with the scandal of the manipulated figures of deaths from (or with) coronavirus, doesn't bode well for the government:

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020 ... -2000.html

Doctors, both in Spain and abroad, were complaining weeks ago that they were being forced to attribute deaths to the virus when no such connection existed and now we also learn that the figures were being doubled up, ie one death being counted as two both from the virus.

At the same time the number of actual cases were being deliberately underestimated which had the effect, when compared with the inflated number of deaths, of making the death rate seem much higher than it really is.

It will be interesting to see the spin that the government apologists put on this.

So what is it? On the one hand people are manipulating the figures up now it seems people are saying if Spain tested the same as the UK, the death rate would be higher. They can't both be right.

There is a very big clue to what the actual figures are any every country. Compare the average deaths at this time of year against the death this year and you get a ball park figure. If someone dies with breathing problems while having a dry cough, it's too much of a coincidence to explain their death wasn't Covid 19 even if without a test there is no absolute proof.

[K&LTupper]

Shame that he cannot Tweet accurate information then......One of his Tweets from Yesterday.


Ed Conway
@EdConwaySky
·
Jun 4
In reality UK daily deaths are running at 100-200 a day and falling.

Utterly incorrect as yesterday (the same day as his tweet) alone the death count was 359. Straight out of the mouth of Grant Schapps at the press briefing and just 20 minutes ago another 357 out of the mouth of Matt Hancock at todays briefing.

Old Ed doesn't seem to be on the ball does he.

His completely inaccurate figures say it all to me