Coronavirus

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Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:35 pm

Good post, Olive. When I told my parents that I couldn't come to visit them in case I brought the virus with me and killed then she said, "Darling, at our time of life that would be a blessing" — and she and my Dad are mentally and physically sound. I am completely fed-up with other people making decisions for the very old and the very sick to always keep then alive as long as possible. For whose benefit, I wonder?

elusive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby elusive » Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:47 pm

I used the word callous earlier. A relative “lived “ in a care home for 12 years with motor neurone disease. She was an ex nurse and begged her daughter to end her life as she knew what she was going to have to live through. Food for thought or in her case food through a pipe in her stomach for years.
--------------

I think thats a whole different, but very much a valid discussion interms of Euthanasia

Then you have the other extreme of healthy older ppl isolating for no reason other than they are scared to death of losing or having less of their cushy lives on their nice early retirement pensions in their big houses in spain or anywhere else. Generally hypochondriacs who ses it as some sort of competition and a badge of honour to see who can say they havnt left the house for the longest time. So how long you gonna stay in for? Until theres a vaccine,until you keel over of something else or until your cruise you booked gets the go ahead and suddenly you will think its safe to go outside . Yeap i know several :lol:

gavilan
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby gavilan » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:20 pm

olive .. no commentappearrs from you at 1.41pm ... on my screen it shows comment from me at 12.50 to one from Beachcomber at 2.11pm

Pamela1
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Pamela1 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:39 pm

Well said Elusive.

K&LTupper
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby K&LTupper » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:58 am

Had a look at the B itchute video site and am curious as to why they post videos and proudly claim "Banned by Youtube" when they aren't? Is it some kind of "bragging right" for some of these wierdo's?

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peteroldracer
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby peteroldracer » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:07 am

I have stopped watching this thread: it has been very useful and informative, but sadly too many of the latest posters are revealing a very nasty side of themselves. Enthusing about killing off the elderly, with Corbynistic remarks about cushy lives and pensions?
Covid19 was supposed to be bringing the best out of people, sadly the reverse is now true.
I used to cough to disguise a [email protected] I f@rt to disguise a cough.

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:41 am

Lavanda wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:09 pm I've just been shopping in the Mercadona in 40ºC (but not in the shop, thank goodness) with mask and gloves on and my glasses so I can see things. I began to perspire. In fact, my face got hot, red and wet. Perspiration drops trickled into my eyes and stung. I was tempted to wipe my eyes but remembered not to touch my face, etc. Perspiration formed on my upper lip and dribbled into my mouth. It was very hot.

It occurs to me that the stupid people who are telling us to use masks when we cannot self-distance simply do not live in the real, practical world of Summer in Spain. For the first time in four months I felt unsafe and in possible danger of getting this virus. I would have felt safer without the mask. I understand the mask is to stop me infecting others but what about self-infecting through mask wearing. Do we have any data on that and if not, why not?
This is straight out of the conspiracy theory handbook.



Why would a mask make you more at risk from catching the virus? You cannot give it to yourself. This has always been one of the daftest reasons that has been put forward by the conspiracists. If you just stopped and thought about it for a moment.

Why have you worn gloves? The advice is to not to wear them unless they are the disposable ones for supermarkets but they must be thrown away at the exit to the store. You should be cleaning your hands regularly which can be done very easily because there is cleaning gel at the entrance of every store

It's not just about you either. It reduces the risk of someone passing it to someone else.


When experts get asked this question, they always start laughing,

Where do you think the Spanish politicians live. Alaska?
Last edited by markwilding on Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

K&LTupper
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby K&LTupper » Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:20 am

There is absolutely NO evidence that wearing a suitable face mask such as the widely in use blue surgical ones have any harmful effects....pure conspiracy stuff. Also all the Spanish wear them here without issue and its jolly warm in Andalucia at present.

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:23 am

K&LTupper wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:58 am Had a look at the B itchute video site and am curious as to why they post videos and proudly claim "Banned by Youtube" when they aren't? Is it some kind of "bragging right" for some of these wierdo's?
Or maybe it's a great way of driving people to the blogs. No better way to get certain people's backs up than to say it's banned.
There have been various example of supposedly banned articles that I have had no problem finding

K&LTupper
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby K&LTupper » Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:28 am

I know exactly what you mean :wink:

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:45 am

K&LTupper wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:20 am There is absolutely NO evidence that wearing a suitable face mask such as the widely in use blue surgical ones have any harmful effects....pure conspiracy stuff. Also all the Spanish wear them here without issue and its jolly warm in Andalucia at present.
I live in a built up area and it not necessary to wear a mask all the time. I walked the 3KMs to my dentist appointment on Friday and only put it on in the reception area for the entire journey.

On Saturday I drove to the city centre and due to the hot weather, it wasn't as busy as it gets other times of the year so the only time I put it on was to go in El Corte Ingles, pick some things up from the supermarket and to order a drink in a hotel bar but I took it off on the terrace. No spots, No red face and I know that I'm more likely to sweat if I wear a cap to protect my head from the sun.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:15 pm

El Cid wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:20 pm
gavilan wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:24 pm here's an alternative scenario: we should have ignored lockdown (the fittest will survive), not bothered about wearing gloves or masks (conflicting advice re effectiveness), nor had regard for social distancing as is a waste of space ie eat, drink and be merry with as many friends as you have ... not been concerned about rising numbers of cases/deaths (accurate statistics are difficult to find) ... nor been alarmed by OAP care home deaths (the inmates are a waste of time and resources anyway ... as are mentally ill people, physically disabled people, those in prison ... and/or anyone who cannot contribute to society/economy ie are not productive ... and those who live beyond will be those who get the economy back on its feet and blossoming ... and just in case, there's a miracle vaccine at the end of the rainbow
That was the original government strategy but when Professor Harrison said that his model showed half a million deaths Boris panicked and imposed lockdown.

With hindsight it is certain that the elderly and those with preexisting conditions were the ones in serious danger and they could have been properly protected and then let the rest get infected and probably survive and for herd immunity to kill it eventually.

I really would not want to be the person to make that decision and clearly Boris didn’t want to do it either.

Overall I think that the worst mistake was their lack of concern for people in care homes. That was the same mistake they made in Spain with much the same horrific consequences.

Sid
We hear much about Spain and UK on here but most european countries have made some of the same mistakes. Lack of PPE, buying faulty PPE, lack of ventilators etc. We keep being told about the good tracing apps but hundreds of thousands have deleted the German one. The elderly in care homes has not been good in most countries, my Austrian friend has a Brother in a care home there and there are problems. Let's not forget that most care homes are privately (and profitably) run. They eagerly took in patients released from hospital and were reluctant to buy PPE. or employ extra staff to cope. Everything is politicised and most countries have seen their leaders being blamed.

There is a lengthy article in El Pais giving a timeline of events in Spain. In the beginning the security council did not take seriously the virus threat, same a most countries. Also mentions the lack of care for cancer and strokes etc. due to prioritising virus. Cities one example of a Madrid hospital converted it's coronary care ward into a covid ward. Interesting read.

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Wicksey
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Wicksey » Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:14 pm

I agree with your comments Katy. The biased news was always on about the incompetence of the Uk government in not providing PPE for care homes, but they are private companies and taking an awful lot of money per week for each client. My FIL recently had to have some respite care in a private nursing home after an operation and he paid 1600 pounds pw. If he wanted a newspaper they charged him extra!

Nobody has experienced a pandemic on this scale in modern times so I guess that no government would know how to react. What surprised me is that I never heard or read anything about Belgium which had by far the worst figures (cases per million of population).

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:20 pm

Beachcomber wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:11 pm
I am currently re-reading 1984. I first read it in my teens when it was just a novel before it became a 21st century instruction manual. Some of the characters are easily recognisable in today's context.

It should be noted that 1984 is still a novel. albeit a very good one and but in no way reflects the 21st century even though there might be elements he predicted correctly.


Beachcomber wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:11 pm before it became a 21st century instruction manual. .


HMMMM, This explains a lot. :

elusive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby elusive » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:10 pm

Wicksey wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:14 pm I agree with your comments Katy. The biased news was always on about the incompetence of the Uk government in not providing PPE for care homes, but they are private companies and taking an awful lot of money per week for each client. My FIL recently had to have some respite care in a private nursing home after an operation and he paid 1600 pounds pw. If he wanted a newspaper they charged him extra!

Nobody has experienced a pandemic on this scale in modern times so I guess that no government would know how to react. What surprised me is that I never heard or read anything about Belgium which had by far the worst figures (cases per million of population).
thats a key to a lot of it. Goverments/councils selling off all the carehomes to the private sector or them been closed down altogether so wimpey etc etc could build housing estates on then. Where did all that money go that they got for the land?! and wheres all the money going that these homes charge. Certainly not in the staffs pockets.

Bed blocking caused by a lack of car home places pre covid caused hospitals to rush ppl out into carehomes when the virus struck. And in many cases those ppl took the virus into carehomes with them. There should have been blanket testing before they moved but there wasnt testing for nhs staff etc let alone anyone else at that time. At the end of the day the care home sector should have been kept in the public sector so they werent left to fight on their own for PPE etc. Not that in reality it prob wouldnt have made much difference as they would have prob still been at the back of the que.staff on min wage and residents are hardly seen as a priority. There wasnt much hope when there was the goverment document from feb/march time saying carehomes wouldnt have any problems.prob written by someone out of ox/bridge

Some countries have advantages due to population density,where they are in the world.dealing with other outbreaks in the past . Others like the uk will struggle because of the large population in a small area. What could all countries have done. Insured enough supplies of PPE, quicker/stricker lockdowns. those that were effected later looked to what countries that had the outbreaks first did and take a lead from it.

Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:25 pm

There are a few ‘alternative’ stories that have been gradually creeping up the pages of the pages in recent weeks. They are now at the top of most papers. They are different takes on how Covid-19 started and where it came from. They are not Conspiracy Theories but facts. However, I have some time on my hands so I am going to start my very own conspiracy theory. Read on at your peril.

The Daily Telegraph tells us today, “Coronavirus may have lain dormant across the world and emerged when the environmental conditions were right for it to thrive rather than starting in China, an Oxford University expert believes.”

They follow that with, “Last week, Spanish virologists announced that they had found traces of the disease in samples of waste water collected in March 2019, nine months before coronavirus was seen in China” and then, “Italian scientists have also found evidence of coronavirus in sewage samples in Milan and Turin in mid-December, many weeks before the first case was detected, while experts have found evidence of traces in Brazil in November.”

Interesting stuff and then the article goes on to say, “Dr Jefferson believes many viruses lie dormant throughout the globe and emerge when conditions are favourable, which also means they can vanish as quickly as they arrive. So we have to think about these things. We need to start researching the ecology of the virus, understanding how it originates and mutates. I think the virus was already here – ‘here’ meaning everywhere. We may be seeing a dormant virus that has been activated by environmental conditions.“

This man is speaking my language.

I believe that everything was created and complete in the world millions of years ago and that included disease and the antidote to the disease. Natural plant-based cures, that is. Maybe our way of life, which is polluting the planet and changing the atmosphere and environment, has kick-started the virus. Maybe us being in lockdown has given the planet a small chance to recuperate. Maybe that is why the virus is slowing down in some places but is accelerating in other places where people have gone ‘back to normal’ and pollution levels are rising again. Maybe the so-called ‘second wave’ is nothing to do with masks and social distancing and lockdowns and everything to do with the overall health of the planet which will deteriorate as we all get back to driving, flying, cruising, working, etc. Maybe we are, literally, killing ourselves.

Maybe.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby gavilan » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:18 pm

and maybe the virus ,which has stopped us in our tracks, is actually giving us the opportunity/time/space to review/reconsider/rethink how we live

elusive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby elusive » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:20 pm

Read that they found it in barca waste in january this year but last year is new info. A legit source?

Wouldnt be surpised if it was dormant or around for along time before as, for the huge majority it is nothing more than a flu like illness so who would have known they had had "covid" before it was actually known about.there was a case in the north of england they were /are investigating from around january where around 7 members of a choir all had covid symptoms. One members husband had just returned from china. They all thought it was a bad case of the flu. They must have passed it onto to others.so how many ppl had it before questions started been asked when admissions to hospitals etc started to raise and it started to spread from china.

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Devils Advocate
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Devils Advocate » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:18 am

elusive wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:20 pm Read that they found it in barca waste in january this year but last year is new info. A legit source?
That news broke a fortnight ago with all major news outlets reporting it. I was surprised it was not mentioned here at the time.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... ine-cases/
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby gerryh » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:46 am

Is it a case of sloppy reporting?
Coronavirus has been around for a number of years.
It mutates and some forms of the mutation can adversely affect humans.
We have had SARS and MERS Coronavirus mutations in this century.
The new mutation was identified and named COVID-19.
So it is highly probable that Coronavirus was found in old water samples but which mutation was it?
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