Coronavirus

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Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:18 am

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/polit ... es-longer/

Sorry. Don’t know what happened to the link above. My “full editor” symbols have been wonky since they turned red a week or so ago.

olive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby olive » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:28 am

Did it ever stop? Re your keyboard problem, just give it a shake to the right. Not too much or they all turn Blue.

Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:50 am

It took me a while to get the joke. Love it. Subtle and intelligent. No wonder it took me a while.

Beachcomber
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:29 am

The World Health Organisation has now backtracked on its criticism of the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat coronavirus patients and it's banning of trials:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... hloroquine:

Well done to the Spanish doctors who insisted on its continued use and for sticking to their guns in the face of adversity.

Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:01 am

I've just read that article and a long one on the origin of the virus; from animals but spliced in a lab and released by accident.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... d-chinese/

There seem to be quite a few articles, in the mainstream press not in some wacky journal, that are 'revising' what we know about what happened when and how. Sweden, without a lockdown, appears to be no worse off in terms of deaths than locked-down countries. However, they still have an economy.

pensure1988
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby pensure1988 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:16 am

Are we allowed to play Petanca if we have 6 Players per Pitch under Phase 2 de-escalation Rules. I do not understand the individual sports rules very well.

Thank You

David

Paulinmalaga
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Paulinmalaga » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:59 am

Lavanda wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:01 am I've just read that article and a long one on the origin of the virus; from animals but spliced in a lab and released by accident.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... d-chinese/

There seem to be quite a few articles, in the mainstream press not in some wacky journal, that are 'revising' what we know about what happened when and how. Sweden, without a lockdown, appears to be no worse off in terms of deaths than locked-down countries. However, they still have an economy.
The facts don't support this statement.

Sweden currently deaths per million of population 450. Now lets compare that with its neighbours ( Denmark being one of the first to lockdown on March 11th) who locked down hard. Comparing Sweden to the U.K is impossible due to many factors, population density being chief amongst them.

Denmark currently deaths per million of population 100

Norway currently deaths per million of population 44

Finland currently deaths per million of population 48

These three neighbours have a demonstrably lower death rates as the figures show.

Even the man who was behind Swedens Covid 19 policy Anders Tegnell has acknowledged he was wrong.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52903717

As to Swedens economy

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... t-lockdown
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Wicksey
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Wicksey » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:32 am

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020 ... o-him.html
I find it a strange anomaly that people can fly from Madrid, a region still in phase 1 due to it's higher numbers of cases, to Lanzarote, a relative low risk area. It seems that the infected man went to Madrid and on to Castilla la Mancha to attend a funeral where he contracted COVID, then flew back to Lanzarote. I understand that we still cannot leave our province until 21 June (or possibly in Phase 3 which some areas are hoping will be allowed). Why isn't he being fined for carrying out this journey? The woman who's son sat next to him during the flight was simply moving out to Lanzarote, which I didn't think was a valid reason was travelling.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:35 am

At least Sweden has done whatever it did for the right reasons.

One of the reasons that The World Health Organisation banned the use of hydroxychloroquine was probably because Donald Trump said he was using it.

It has been more concerned with vilifying the highly qualified scientists who were advocating its use and playing petty politics with the health and lives of the world population rather than considering what was best for them preferring to base its policy, according to the Guardian, on a company called 'Surgisphere the three employees of which have little or no data or scientific background with an employee listed as a science editor appearing to be a science fiction author and fantasy artist. Another employee listed as a marketing executive is an adult model and events hostess'.

I wonder how many extra people died because of the WHO's intransigence and neglect and how many of the You Tube videos banned for going against the politically motivated pronouncements of the WHO will be reinstated?

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:24 pm

Beachcomber wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:35 am At least Sweden has done whatever it did for the right reasons.
What are you basing that on?

It turns out they were probably wrong and conceded if it were possible would have done it differently


https://www.rt.com/op-ed/490665-sweden- ... pproaches/

Yes from RT, which I read as well so I know you are selective with the articles you post from them. This article I read earlier probably sums up the whole situation perfectly that nobody, politicians, scientist, some bloke on YouTube, trying to make a name for himself. For sure not those who believe they are privy to some conspiracy that the rest of us aren't and certainly not me and you had a clue how to deal with this.

However the fact still remains that more people are dying than normal even with the measures

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020 ... -2019.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-in ... els-europe



.

Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:57 pm

Paulinmalaga: I only posted on Sweden because an article in the press said that they were no worse off than the UK for not isolating BUT they still have their economy. So I don't know why they compared Sweden with the UK when you write:

"Comparing Sweden to the U.K is impossible due to many factors, population density being chief amongst them."

It's here, correct as of today 4th June 2020:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tota ... er-million

UK deaths per million: 582.22
Sweden 449.74

The discussion is that without lockdown a country is NOT worse off AND still has their economy. That's all it's saying. No big argument.
Last edited by Lavanda on Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:47 pm

Lavanda wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:57 pm

The discussion is that without lockdown a country is NOT worse off AND still has their economy. That's all it's saying. No big argument.

That isn't true, is it?



I've read various articles about the state of the its economy. Unsurprisingly, Sweden is dependant on the world economy so is expected to go into a deep recession.

Here is the link Paul posted.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... t-lockdown

Obviously, Paul compared it's death rate with other Scandinavian countries, because of their similarity

Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:11 pm

I give up. We are having different debates. What I wrote stands. It stands with statistics. Maybe what I wrote is not liked very much and you can 'not like it' but nevertheless it is true as of today.

Both the UK and Spain for that matter, with lockdown have had more Covid-19 deaths than Sweden, without lockdown. The UK, free and independent post-Brexit, and Spain part of the EU, both have shattered economies. Sweden still has an economy in better shape. It seems pretty clear, doesn't it? By all means compare Sweden with a green cheese if you like but it does not make what I wrote incorrect, does it?

"Obviously, Paul compared it's death rate with other Scandinavian countries, because of their similarity'

As in all these countries have people?

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby qe2ex » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:22 pm

Beachcomber wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:35 am At least Sweden has done whatever it did for the right reasons.

One of the reasons that The World Health Organisation banned the use of hydroxychloroquine was probably because Donald Trump said he was using it.

It has been more concerned with vilifying the highly qualified scientists who were advocating its use and playing petty politics with the health and lives of the world population rather than considering what was best for them preferring to base its policy, according to the Guardian, on a company called 'Surgisphere the three employees of which have little or no data or scientific background with an employee listed as a science editor appearing to be a science fiction author and fantasy artist. Another employee listed as a marketing executive is an adult model and events hostess'.
Thinking the WHO's "ban" is related to Trump sounds like on of those conspiracy theories and I'm surprised you say what you say.

Much more likely the reason was that the article from Surgisphere was published in one of the more respectable medical journals, claiming that usage of hydroxychloroquine caused severe health effects and likely deaths too. The Lancet is now "issuing an Expression of Concern" regarding that article and it's data, and subsequently WHO has also backtracked on this issue.

qe2ex
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby qe2ex » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:32 pm

markwilding wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:47 pm
Lavanda wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:57 pm

The discussion is that without lockdown a country is NOT worse off AND still has their economy. That's all it's saying. No big argument.

That isn't true, is it?
Indeed. I can't help to think of this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Paulinmalaga » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:41 pm

qe2ex :clap: :lol:
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katy
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:43 pm

Beachcomber wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:35 am At least Sweden has done whatever it did for the right reasons.

One of the reasons that The World Health Organisation banned the use of hydroxychloroquine was probably because Donald Trump said he was using it.

It has been more concerned with vilifying the highly qualified scientists who were advocating its use and playing petty politics with the health and lives of the world population rather than considering what was best for them preferring to base its policy, according to the Guardian, on a company called 'Surgisphere the three employees of which have little or no data or scientific background with an employee listed as a science editor appearing to be a science fiction author and fantasy artist. Another employee listed as a marketing executive is an adult model and events hostess'.

I wonder how many extra people died because of the WHO's intransigence and neglect and how many of the You Tube videos banned for going against the politically motivated pronouncements of the WHO will be reinstated?
Agree, the Lancet (has previous history of getting things wrong) was also complicit in rubbishing the drug. Was my first thought too when I saw the guardian article that it may have been just anti-trump as all the main newspapers had been calling him and idiot and causing deaths by endorsing it. The media was also complicit as it must have known that tests were being successfully carrying on throughout Europe (UK bought £37 million of the stuff) yet did not publish it until recently.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:48 pm

Saw this in the news today, criticises Worldometer the oft quoted virus stats site. Now (some) like the FT are waking up.


Newsnight made a lot out of an incredible statistic: that the UK had more deaths yesterday than the entire EU. The problem is the numbers are nonsense. The FT has exposed reporting on the continent to be littered with “flawed data”…

In fact some of the data in foreign countries is so dodgy that, according to the FT’s data guru John Burn-Murdoch, if England had adopted Spain’s new ‘method’, it would have reported just 20 new deaths yesterday. England is equivalent to 13% of the population of the EU, and yet would appear to have just 6% of the death rate, if it adopted Spain’s manipulated reporting…

Newsnight sourced the dodgy data from controversial website ‘Worldometer‘, a website that even Wikipedia editors have decided to avoid. The data manager for independent statistics website Our World In Data told CNN that “We think people should be wary, especially media, policy-makers and decision-makers. This data is not as accurate as they think it is.” Take note, Newsnight…

Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:56 pm

qe2ex. Hilarious. I have seen that before and it's still funny. I think making fun of someone who presents you with facts you don't like is one way forward. It makes no difference to me at all.

The other thing about the WHO not endorsing/banning the use of hydroxychloroquine is because it has no patent and is cheap. Big Pharma are going to want to make a lot of money out of the vaccine/cure for Covid-19 — but that is not wrong. They make money when people are ill and they like ill people. They are a business and businesses like business opportunities.

Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:00 pm

Agree completely, Katy. This Covid-19 and the reporting of the virus will go down in history as a complete mess. Social media and the internet have complicated and confused practically everything. However, in the 'old days' everyone got their news from the BBC and they told us the 'facts'. We believed them and trusted them and we all knew where we were.

Or did we?


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