Coronavirus

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elusive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby elusive » Sun May 24, 2020 10:12 am

Anyway, are they going for another two weeks after this one ? I thought this was the last one and most of the country will back to almost normal 2 weeks on Monday. I'm getting messages from my students that the exam boards are telling them to be ready to do their exams as soon as possible as we enter phase 2 on Monday.
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I believe the S.O.A has to be inacted until the phases end as thats legally the only way they can restrict movement etc

Paulinmalaga
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Paulinmalaga » Sun May 24, 2020 10:23 am

Devils Advocate wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:01 am
I agree with the comments above but reckon they are minor risk and avoidable for many outside of London, ie flying from Manchester or Leeds you could easily use your own transport.

The risk I'd assume if you are worried about picking up the virus is on the flight itself, 2.5 hours + and breathing recycled air.

The centre seat vacant idea (if that is still the way they are going) is again a joke, will it make any difference at all?

I seldom get cold, flu etc but the times I've picked up a bug in the last 20 years have always come after the Manchester to Malaga or vica versa flight.......always!! Coincidence maybe but it's a fact. Not had a sniffle without a flight involved.
I am not doubting what you say in regard to always getting sniffles etc after flying but I recently read the following which I did find reassuring.

Something that lots of us are questioning Aircraft Cabin Air - Dispelling a myth - If you doubt, you can still wear a mask while on board, drive a car, or even safer, stay at home Extract from a BALPA (British Airline Pilots Association" article: Dispelling the myths around aircraft cabin air It is a common misconception amongst passengers that when on board a flight, they are all sharing 'stale air'. At this time, with coronavirus a real fear amongst the public, it is more important than ever to challenge that misconception and help the public understand the way cabin air works. Where does the air come from and how does it flow? Cabin air is a mix of fresh air drawn from outside of the aircraft (treated prior to entering the cabin so that it is at a pressure and temperature comfortable for breathing) and existing cabin air that has been recycled through extremely efficient filters (known as High Efficiency Particulate Air (HEPA) filters) that are capable of trapping microscopic sized bacteria such as SARS-Cov-2 (the novel coronavirus which causes Covid-19). Tests have shown HEPA filters to have an efficiency level of better than 99.99% and they provide air that meets the standards set for hospital operating theatres. In normal operation, less than half of the air is filtered and recirculated, the rest is fresh air drawn-in from outside the aircraft. Air supplied to the cabin enters at the level of the overhead compartments (from above and below them) and is extracted at floor level. This means that the air is drawn down and, importantly, there is no flow forward or aft along the cabin. Air supplied to aircraft toilets, galleys and cargo-holds is not filtered, but instead is dumped directly overboard. The cabin air in a typical airliner aircraft such as an Airbus A320 is completely changed, on average, every three minutes, which compares to every 10-12 minutes in a typical air-conditioned building. Can the SARS-Cov-2 virus be spread by recycled cabin air? This is unlikely because air that enters the cabin and passes over the occupants is extracted at floor level and then either exits overboard via pressurisation outflow valves or passes through the HEPA filter prior to being mixed with fresh air and re-entering the cabin. For the reasons stated above, operational advice provided by EASA for aircraft equipped with HEPA filters is to not stop re-circulation fans but to promote increased fresh air flow by selecting high PACK FLOW, whenever possible.
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katy
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Sun May 24, 2020 10:26 am

Many of you have probably read it but interesting in depth on procuring masks and other PPE.

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020 ... ml?rel=mas

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Sun May 24, 2020 10:34 am

We were delivered masks last Thursday for free and my wife has been given a few up at metro stations.

Looking in the window of an upmarket men's retailer yesterday, it made me laugh to see some for sell in a nicely patterned silk like material..
Last edited by markwilding on Sun May 24, 2020 10:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

Lyric
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lyric » Sun May 24, 2020 10:35 am

While the above is true this article takes it a stage further.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/why-you-really- ... 1471880458

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Devils Advocate » Sun May 24, 2020 10:39 am

And yet firms are spending money to improve things.

As I say my couple of bugs I picked up may have just been coincidence, however there is no definite answer to that.

https://www.flightglobal.com/business-a ... 16.article
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markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Sun May 24, 2020 10:55 am

I always believed the same air circulating around aircraft myth. However, after reading Lyric's article, I will definitely be giving the area around me a regular clean up from now on.

Beachcomber
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Beachcomber » Sun May 24, 2020 11:01 am

If dust particles from peanuts can be circulated through an aeroplane's air conditioning system:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news ... -reaction/

why not germs and viruses?

olive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby olive » Sun May 24, 2020 11:10 am

That is fine about Hepa filters on a plane . It all sounds great in theory. Years ago I read that some of the air packs are switched off ( to save money) on long haul flights when it is sleep time. Sleeping doesn't need such good quality air. Maybe true and maybe not , who knows.

I am still sceptical about potential transmission on planes. If you have planned and paid for a holiday, if one of your party has the virus and maybe feels a bit off colour, it is human nature to continue with your holiday unless forced to turn back by any scanning that the airport has. So people could still have CV19 on board any aircraft. When you see how easy droplets are spread in a confined space, it is a nonsense thinking you won't get it. If you get permission to go to the loo, people seem to touch every seat back to get there and back and they are higher than seated passengers. A study the other day showed how droplets are propelled backwards from masks. There must be something in the two metre social distancing rule or is that another nonsense.

I am thinking any rational person will do a risk assessment on flying. Infection rates, vulnerability, need and so on. I won't be one of the pioneers. If there is going to be a second wave then the danger time may be six months time and not six weeks time.

Will the EU ask for our money back on the reneged deal. In a word No. They don't have a good track record.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Devils Advocate » Sun May 24, 2020 11:12 am

Beachy, even if the air was 100% pure which I see no detailed evidence of you still have the issue of 200 or so people sharing the same few square metres and movement in the aisles.

To allow that after months of strict lockdown is what I personally still can't understand,especially as people are still dying from the virus. It makes the previous months sacrifices seem worthless.

Again I'm not saying it's wrong, I think there should be flights and people should be allowed to go back to work.

It was a choice between Herd immunity and lock down/restrictions.........the latter was chosen.

In that respect only I think it's far too soon to go from draconian lock down to a free for all over night.

The other thing is at the airports you'll have people from all over the place mixing when they have been only able to mix locally.

If the virus is as aggressive and spreadable as was made out to us then surely wave 2 is a cert. if this goes ahead.

I really now think it is a case of the individual decides, ie do you want to take the risk. I would if I still had the place there, I'd have to.

What worries me is another sham of a lockdown and the economies of our countries suffering further.
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markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Sun May 24, 2020 11:33 am

I would prefer to get back to normal as quickly as possible including air travel. While I understand your point about we have done all the hard work so why should risk having to go through it again, I would say that not only are the majority much clearer with regard to the risks, and consequences, but we are also taking the measures much more seriously to avoid contact with the virus much more than before the lockdown.

It's a discussion I'm constantly having with my wife who believes it is inevitable that most people will contract it at some point, while I hope that by following the measures laid out by experts, it might by possible to keep infections low and becuase of this, should someone contract it, it will be easier to find and isolate people who have been in contact with the infected person
Last edited by markwilding on Sun May 24, 2020 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Sun May 24, 2020 11:36 am

It won't be easy to find me, Mark, or Track & Trace me. I don't have a SmartPhone.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Devils Advocate » Sun May 24, 2020 11:40 am

I agree but the problem is Mark, how do you take the advised measures in 2 x packed airports and 2 x flights?.....it's impossible.

And as proven here people who think they are immune don't give a crap about the advice. Just wait until this mob hit the costas beaches.

Would the death rate have been any higher without lock down? I don't know but I wish there was a way to find out.

Sadly the 6 people who've died in our village were already in either hospital or care. The self isolation of the masses could not save them.
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Devils Advocate » Sun May 24, 2020 11:52 am

Another thought which I don't know has been addressed, anybody know what the score will be?

Loo's? Our nearest shopping centre has had it's toilets closed throughout the crisis, much to the criticism of the public. They have now reopened with a one in one out scheme. Queues outside the ladies is none stop.

So what about airports? One in one out? At 6.30 am at Mancherster every trap and pee stone is fully employed and the place is usually packed, queues for the ladies before take off is always horrendous.

Imagine that with a one in one out system. So will they close them or allow a free for all there when holiday flights start again?
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olive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby olive » Sun May 24, 2020 12:04 pm

Lavanda wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:36 am
It won't be easy to find me, Mark, or Track & Trace me. I don't have a SmartPhone.
Ah but the authorities will easily be able to track your movements in your newly acquired motorhome via ANPR
:lol:

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby olive » Sun May 24, 2020 12:12 pm

Devils Advocate wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:52 am
Another thought which I don't know has been addressed, anybody know what the score will be?

Loo's? Our nearest shopping centre has had it's toilets closed throughout the crisis, much to the criticism of the public. They have now reopened with a one in one out scheme. Queues outside the ladies is none stop.

So what about airports? One in one out? At 6.30 am at Mancherster every trap and pee stone is fully employed and the place is usually packed, queues for the ladies before take off is always horrendous.

Imagine that with a one in one out system. So will they close them or allow a free for all there when holiday flights start again?
All I have read is that you will have to ask to use the loo on a plane. Presumably they will be disinfected after each use (Not a nice job for flight attendants). The airports will employ a flotilla of cleaning staff for the toilets. Meanwhile sales of catheters and pilot pee bags may well be rocketing. Slightly off track but toilets enroute from Spain via France to the Uk are currently in short supply. Those horrible holes in the ground with shoe holes and a grab handle were in big demand and were consequently gross from not being cleaned. So it isn't just an airport problem but a universal one the minute you leave home.

markwilding
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Sun May 24, 2020 12:13 pm

Lavanda, Yes, but you live in a small village so it is much easier to track and trace by normal investigation anyway. Have there been any cases close to you in your village? Here there have been plenty.

DA, I know i's a real conundrum. However, will millions be rushing to fly this summer? I had to take some purchases back to shops bought online and go the Apple shop in Bilbao for a repair. I thought it would take ages but the queues were light and i got through both tasks pretty quickly.

We have already decided to have our main summer holiday here in Spain and not travel abroad and I suspect that that might be how many people will arrange the summer. People in the UK will take holidays in the UK and People in Spain will stay in Spain

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Devils Advocate » Sun May 24, 2020 12:23 pm

markwilding wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:13 pm


DA, I know i's a real conundrum. However, will millions be rushing to fly this summer?
We like you have already taken the decision to holiday/have days out here this year and see how the land lies next year.....jeez I'll miss the Brittany Ferries experience and also both Plaza Nueva and a revisit to the old stomping ground.

As for your question I've quoted. it'll be very interesting to see just how that unfolds. I think all holiday home owners will fly out but how many will actually go for a hotel/apartment holiday.........can you even book one yet?

As I say it'll be very interesting seeing this play out and what other twists and turns are in store.

Also with France now deciding on 2 weeks quarantine for visitors I actually fear for Brittany Ferries, they must be mortified.
That finally killed all our hopes off of a trip abroad this year.
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olive
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby olive » Sun May 24, 2020 12:35 pm

I spent a fruitless half hour last night on Brittany Ferries and failed to make a booking to get back to Spain. Plenty of people booking.

Taking a holiday in your own country might be fine for Med countries but North Europeans will continue to be attracted to the South of Europe. Especially if the players make it attractive with discounted flights and discounts on hotels. There will be a huge appetite by everyone to get people travelling and consuming.but time will tell.
Last edited by olive on Sun May 24, 2020 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lavanda
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Sun May 24, 2020 12:38 pm

I would just like to visit my parents, stay all Summer, then come home. I think some people on this forum are in similar positions. If it were not for my parents i would not be going anywhere. Why would I, when I live in a wonderful place and have been on holiday 24/7 for the last 15 years.


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