Coronavirus

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Devils Advocate
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Devils Advocate » Sun May 24, 2020 12:43 pm

olive wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:35 pm
I spent a fruitless half hour last night on Brittany Ferries and failed to make a booking to get back to Spain. Plenty of people booking.
Haven't been on their site for a week. I log in to read the MD's updates. Last time I read them all the boats were on Freight duties.

Why out of interest could you not book, is it even possible to book yet? It must be if you say people are booking. Last time I looked they were hoping to maybe restart crossings mid June. I'll go back on now. Hope you get sorted soon too.
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.

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Wicksey
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Wicksey » Sun May 24, 2020 12:48 pm

When flying we have always taken wet wipes and cleaned the seatback tray and our hands before touching our food. I have read, rightly or not, that many germs are passed on via surfaces and transmitted when you then touch your face, so we really try not to do that. Planes have a very quick turnaround and the seat is often still warm from the previous passenger .... yuk, and are not cleaned between flights (I can remember in the old days waiting for the cleaners to come off the plane before we could get on).

We travel a number of times a year and up until recently have avoided catching anything after a flight. This was until December when my OH returned from the UK. He said the whole plane was coughing, much worse than the usual, with the man next to him coughing without covering his mouth throughout the journey. My OH was in the window seat and was trapped in very close quarters with this man for 2.5hrs. A few days later he came down with the worst cough he'd ever had with a fever. He did not feel better from it until well into January. It has made us wonder if this was the first lot of COVID germs making an appearance. I believe it has been found to be around since at least December.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Sun May 24, 2020 1:23 pm

olive wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:35 pm
Taking a holiday in your own country might be fine for Med countries but North Europeans will continue to be attracted to the South of Europe. Especially if the players make it attractive with discounted flights and discounts on hotels.
I spent a wonderful 17 days travelling to Holland, Brussels and the area between Stratford upon Avon and Cambridge as well as a couple of days in the New forest last August. Living here in Spain has made me think about exploring more of my own country. Maybe more people will take the opportunity to visit the gems they have close to where they live.

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Devils Advocate
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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Devils Advocate » Sun May 24, 2020 1:35 pm

markwilding wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:23 pm
Maybe more people will take the opportunity to visit the gems they have close to where they live.
I'd hope so too Mark but it will purely depend on the pricing in the Travel agents window.

We all know by now you can get a fortnights cruise or package holiday to Spain, Mexico, The Caribbean wherever all inclusive.....(if you're prepared to wear a wrist tag and mix with the hoards which we're not) for far less than the price of a more civilised break in Devon, the lakes, Bilbao etc.

If the price is right they'll be snapped up. For us the 3 day drive off piste through France staying in lovely towns en route and then exploring La Rioja and Castilla Y Leon and Segovia before heading south is just a fond memory now.
Property owner in Andalucia since 2002. How time flies.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby olive » Sun May 24, 2020 2:47 pm

Devils Advocate wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:43 pm
olive wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:35 pm
I spent a fruitless half hour last night on Brittany Ferries and failed to make a booking to get back to Spain. Plenty of people booking.
Haven't been on their site for a week. I log in to read the MD's updates. Last time I read them all the boats were on Freight duties.

Why out of interest could you not book, is it even possible to book yet? It must be if you say people are booking. Last time I looked they were hoping to maybe restart crossings mid June. I'll go back on now. Hope you get sorted soon too.
It was simply a lack of availability on Dog Friendly cabins. 17 on Finistere and 13 on Etretat. Everything booked on all crossings listed from end of June to about 20July. Cannot wait till after that. Bit of a problem as we now have a non transferrable voucher for a crossing. By inference non pet travellers will also be booking. Like other modes of transport, they will have to have social distancing, no buffets and cleaning regimes no doubt before taking masses of Joe Public.

Ironically the OH has been camped out in Northern Spain avoiding the olive pollen and when the second booking came and went with being cancelled she decided to drive through France having prepared the appropriate attestations and so on. No sooner had she got into France than BF rang up to say the UK government had OKd her on humanitarian grounds to travel on Saturdays ferry. If only they had been a few hours earlier. Hey Ho. Covid 19, the gift that just keeps on giving. She is now in England.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Sun May 24, 2020 10:43 pm

Devils Advocate wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:35 pm
markwilding wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:23 pm
Maybe more people will take the opportunity to visit the gems they have close to where they live.
I'd hope so too Mark but it will purely depend on the pricing in the Travel agents window.

We all know by now you can get a fortnights cruise or package holiday to Spain, Mexico, The Caribbean wherever all inclusive.....(if you're prepared to wear a wrist tag and mix with the hoards which we're not) for far less than the price of a more civilised break in Devon, the lakes, Bilbao etc.

If the price is right they'll be snapped up. For us the 3 day drive off piste through France staying in lovely towns en route and then exploring La Rioja and Castilla Y Leon and Segovia before heading south is just a fond memory now.
All inclusive doesn’t have to be like that if you avoid Tui etc. Never been AI in Spain but once visited uk friends staying in a CDS hotel. Absolute sh ite. Unbranded drinks, plastic glasses and slop food.
What I have read about hotels reopening with set hours to use swimming pools, breakfast in rooms (didn’t stop the virus on cruises) sound nothing like a holiday more like doing time! Had a newsletter from the Paradores today saying they will be opening soon. I would prefer to wait until everything is normal, even if it is next year.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Wicksey » Mon May 25, 2020 10:04 am

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/05/ ... frankfurt/

I was interested to read this article this morning. 2 weeks after a church service was held in Frankfurt 107 people that attended were tested positive for the virus. It does make me think that there could be a sudden surge again of cases in a few weeks after everywhere starts to really open up. It's still very quiet here, but in Phase 2 beaches and shopping centres will open, plus meetings of bigger groups will be allowed.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Mon May 25, 2020 10:42 am

I just had coffee in the churrería in my village. Six tables outside, well-spaced. No one inside. One person per table wearing a mask goes inside to order, pay and bring the order to the table. In between people using a table the owner comes out, masked and gloved, and disinfects everything. Each of the six tables were occupied by close family groups or friends. There were one group of four, one of three and the rest were two. No one in my village is rushing anything very much. People are still cautious.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Mon May 25, 2020 6:37 pm

The two week coronavirus quarantine requirement for overseas arrivals ends on July 1st

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Screagle » Mon May 25, 2020 6:54 pm

But how are tourists / non-residents supposed to get around from 1st July onwards? I'm thinking specifically public transport (not taxis), for instance Renfe and bus companies are still quoting El Real Decreto 463/2020, de 14 de marzo COVID-19 restrictions with significantly reduced timetables and services.

Saludos

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby olive » Mon May 25, 2020 7:18 pm

markwilding wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 6:37 pm
The two week coronavirus quarantine requirement for overseas arrivals ends on July 1st
Two things.

Has there been clarification on toilets ( airports, beaches, public spaces, cafes) being readily available from 1st July?

Poundshop Margaret Thatcher said that the 14 day self isolation For returning Brits starts on 8th June and will be reviewed every three weeks

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby elusive » Mon May 25, 2020 7:27 pm

The state of alarm will be over come the end of june (sanchez said some areas will come out of it sooner) so transport timetables should be back to normal by then.

Same for cafes,beaches etc. Beaches are opening in phase two but everything should be "normal" by the end of june
Last edited by elusive on Mon May 25, 2020 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Lavanda » Mon May 25, 2020 8:08 pm

There's some sort of meeting for governments in Extemadura tomorrow to ask central government if we can move through the phases quickly as we are a low infection/mortality area. In spite of that the swimming pools and natural pools will not be open this year, it seems. The August fiestas also look doubtful. People from 'away' might as well stay away!!!

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Beachcomber » Mon May 25, 2020 9:18 pm

Now there's a surprise:

https://www.lasexta.com/noticias/nacion ... 356aa.html

I wonder who blew the whistle?

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby Manchesteral » Mon May 25, 2020 9:52 pm

katy wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:43 pm
Devils Advocate wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:35 pm
markwilding wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:23 pm
Maybe more people will take the opportunity to visit the gems they have close to where they live.
I'd hope so too Mark but it will purely depend on the pricing in the Travel agents window.

We all know by now you can get a fortnights cruise or package holiday to Spain, Mexico, The Caribbean wherever all inclusive.....(if you're prepared to wear a wrist tag and mix with the hoards which we're not) for far less than the price of a more civilised break in Devon, the lakes, Bilbao etc.

If the price is right they'll be snapped up. For us the 3 day drive off piste through France staying in lovely towns en route and then exploring La Rioja and Castilla Y Leon and Segovia before heading south is just a fond memory now.
All inclusive doesn’t have to be like that if you avoid Tui etc. Never been AI in Spain but once visited uk friends staying in a CDS hotel. Absolute sh ite. Unbranded drinks, plastic glasses and slop food.
What I have read about hotels reopening with set hours to use swimming pools, breakfast in rooms (didn’t stop the virus on cruises) sound nothing like a holiday more like doing time! Had a newsletter from the Paradores today saying they will be opening soon. I would prefer to wait until everything is normal, even if it is next year.
I have fallen victim to the all inclusive scam twice, never again !

I am though proud to support (admin this is not an ad) the Hotel Reina Isobel a 4 star hotel adjacent to my home, they don't do full board but accommodation, breakfast (which is astonishing) and includes good quality vodka and cava (for those who need it) the evening meal is not fantastic but very good ! The best buffet I I have ever eaten was at the Hilton Millenium in Bangkok where you can have a whole lobster if you want one. Tui is normally **** buffet, normally greasy, and raw !!

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Tue May 26, 2020 1:36 pm

markwilding wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:50 am
Yes, but there were also many more cases of people dying outside hospitals without having taken a test and were not included in the figures especially at first. Many of these deaths were put down to the underlying problem but these problems were manageable before Covid. China is a case in question. How many people really believe the figures were as low as reported by the Chinese government?

There is no misinformation about the fact that the elderly and people with underlying health conditions are those at most risk. this is not a government conspiracy to keep this information from us This has been clear from the start and is not something that only RT is privy to.

You are also being extremely selective about what doctors are saying. If you really want to listen to what doctors are saying, why don't you mention the fact doctor are complaining about lack of PPE equipment and are lamenting that many public service workers have died in both care homes and the hospitals? not to mention their fear of taking the virus home to their loved ones. Another reason to make sure that the curve is flattened so as not to overwhelm hospital to a point they can't cope?

The vast majority of medical workers understand the needs for the measures.
I read that Spain has reduced deaths by a few thousand this week. I suspect there will never be a definitive answer as to how many/little died of the virus in any country. Many calculations and miscalculations with initially many being classified as dying from the virus when they had only weeks to live.. Recently read a report from the European centre for disease and Control which gave the following for death in care homes from the virus. Not sure if it makes any difference anymore as long as the rate is dropping.

Spain 66%
Norway 61% (including out of hospital settings)
Belgium 51%
Sweden 50%
France 50%
Germany 37%
UK 21%

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Tue May 26, 2020 2:12 pm

If the differences were tens of thousands. there would be a point but adjusting the figure by a little under 2 thousand down to almost 27,000 doesn't change anything apart from the fact the after a check the figure needed adjusting. Of course this is with a lock down. The figure might have been much much higher had nothing been done.
The UK are up to 36,000, a sobering thought when you consider 32,000 died in the blitz and around UK 70,000 civilians died in the entire second world waR

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby katy » Tue May 26, 2020 2:24 pm

Thought we aren't supposed to get into UK stuff and the blitz comparison is totally irrelevant. A reduction of 2 thousand is not.

Here is an article from today's mail which covers other countries counting methods. As I said, we shall never know.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... urope.html

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby markwilding » Tue May 26, 2020 2:47 pm

The point was just to make a comparison which is easily understood by members. However, although I agree that almost 2,000 is not an insignificant figure, it doesn't make it better for the other 27,000.

Had Spain used the same way of counting as the UK, would the figure have been higher or lower here? The article doesn't use Spain as an example.

As you say, we might neve really know but there will be analysis after investigation after this has passed so it is possible we will have a clearer picture in some years.

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Re: Coronavirus

Postby olive » Tue May 26, 2020 3:40 pm

Unless I am missing something, the easiest way to get a reasonable picture for all countries is to look at recorded deaths.Then look at previous years figures and see the difference. Surely it would be reasonable to assume the excess were Covid19. You might have to adjust the baseline for natural disasters like earthquakes, terrorist attacks and so on. I am convinced the figures bandied around are not accurate. Certainly in the first weeks anyone dying would just be shovelled off without testing.


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