Covid Vaccinations Spain

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Pamela1
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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby Pamela1 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:32 pm

Beachcomber wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:40 pm Two pieces of good news from the Spanish government propaganda mouthpiece:

The government is going to delay giving the second injection so that they can give everyone the first dose more quickly.

Telediario also states that Sanidad is considering replacing AstraZeneca with Pfizer for the second dose!

What could possibly go wrong?
I always thought Spain said that they would never consider mix and match vaccines, i don't even know if any trials have been completed using this method, i know the Uk are currently running a trial but it isn't finished yet. I guess i could be right about Spain following Germany after they said people who had one jab with AZ should just get a 2nd jab with a different vaccine. They all seem to be taking u turns, not just on mix and match but also on how far apart they recommend between the 1st and 2nd dose. If people are not already confused enough.

Free at Last
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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby Free at Last » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:43 pm

Pamela1 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:32 pm

I always thought Spain said that they would never consider mix and match vaccines, i don't even know if any trials have been completed using this method, i know the Uk are currently running a trial but it isn't finished yet.
There is a study being conducted in Spain:-

https://www.elmundo.es/ciencia-y-salud/ ... b45aa.html

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby katy » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:02 pm

Bit of an about turn when they were taking the pizz out of UK for administrating the first dose. Nil confidence in it anyway if the Queen couldn't sit next to her Son who has had the virus and has been vaccinated what is the point.

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby El Cid » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:28 pm

From a purely medical point of view, following the dosage as decreed in the authorisation for the vaccine is correct. Otherwise it’s like ignoring the instructions for any drug you take.

From a political point of view, I can see that getting the maximum number of people vaccinated with at least one dose makes sense, especially as the original trial results suggest a fairly high effectiveness after one dose. The second dose is just a bonus which increases the effectiveness by a relatively small percentage. I have also read suggestions that extending the period between jabs can increase the time that the vaccine is effective. I can see the logic in that. If you have toothache, taking a second painkiller as far away from the first dose will have a better extended effect than taking two in the first place.

Essentially the problem is that this vaccine and the multiple options for dosage and the possible use of two different vaccines on one patient were not included in the trials for the obvious reason that there was not enough time available to do an extended and comprehensive trial.

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:33 pm

The clinical trials are ongoing and will not be concluded until 2023 that's why they are not approved but merely given emergency use authorisation and are referred to as 'experimental'.

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:42 am

If anyone in Andalucia wants to check that their details are correct for notification of their vaccine appointments you can do so on this link (digital certificate or Clave PIN needed)

https://www.sspa.juntadeandalucia.es/se ... clicsalud/

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby Wicksey » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:32 am

I understood that the AZ was produced the traditional way, the same as the flu jab and other vaccines, but the Pfizer and Moderna use completely different technology. It would seem strange then to give the AZ for the first jab and one of the others for the second .... to me anyway. You would wonder if one would perhaps interact with the other. It all seems a bit experimental.

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby Pamela1 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:42 am

It is experimental Wicksey, they are still conducting trials..however Beach has indicated the trials will not be concluded until 2023.They have been given emergency use authorisation due to the high infection rates and deaths during this on going pandemic..I guess it's a chance and a gamble they think is worth taking..Perhaps also they feel more certain than uncertain that it is reasonably safe to jab with one then a different one..No doubt they will find justification in what they are doing but ultimatley we are all taking part in their bigger picture..I am very uneasy about the mix and match vaccines & i have been since they were first mentioned some months ago..In the end i envisage that it will catch us all up when it comes to booster jabs and many people will report being given a jab from a different company..It will become the norm. :crazy:

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:47 am

I took fully tested and approved medication that left me with side effects for 18 months. Every drug has side effects. It is always just a balance of the danger (and instance) of the side effects that the drug has versus the condition you are suffering from.

I have been taking a medication for 12 years now that was designed and approved for short term use. The doctor who put me on the medication did it on the basis that we had tried everything else and it wasn't working. He read some research about preliminary studies and asked me if I wanted to try it. So I have been taking unapproved medication for 12 years and I am still here.

Every time I see a new doctor I explain and I have been scolded a few times about it and even been told I should stop, but too me the upside is worth the risk and so far so good I haven't had any problems. The only reason that the drug hasn't been approved for long term use is that there is not enough people who might benefit from long term use, but that doesn't mean it is not safe for long term use. However most likely there will never be a study for long term use and it will always remain experimental.


In this instance I am happy that experimental treatments exist.

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firsttango
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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby firsttango » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:58 am

Big difference is they are not trying to administer your particular medication in to Billions of people, the vast majority of whom are perfectly healthy......you wouldn't be taking your unapproved medication willingly if you weren't actually ill or had symptoms of your "rare" condition now would you?

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:05 pm

Firstly my condition is not rare...infact estimates are 60% of the population have it. However I have it quite severely and it did not respond to normal medication protocol. It also very very rarely kills people but it is possible.

I am not actually ill ,thanks to the medication I lead a perfectly normal healthy life.

Nobody is forcing anyone to have the vaccine. I myself am too young for Covid to worry me personally in anyway. However I will get vaccinated for the good of those in danger and so that we can all go back to a normal life.

I will also avoid social interaction with anyone who has not been vaccinated. To facilitate that interaction I am prepared to take an 'experimental treatment. That is my choice and I don't want it taken away from me.

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby Beachcomber » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:53 pm

Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:05 pm Nobody is forcing anyone to have the vaccine.
Of course they are. Nurses, care home staff, police, to name just a few. Theoretically they may refuse but it means their career prospects come to an abrupt end.

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firsttango
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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby firsttango » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:35 pm

Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:05 pm Firstly my condition is not rare...infact estimates are 60% of the population have it. However I have it quite severely and it did not respond to normal medication protocol. It also very very rarely kills people but it is possible.

I am not actually ill ,thanks to the medication I lead a perfectly normal healthy life.

Nobody is forcing anyone to have the vaccine. I myself am too young for Covid to worry me personally in anyway. However I will get vaccinated for the good of those in danger and so that we can all go back to a normal life.

I will also avoid social interaction with anyone who has not been vaccinated. To facilitate that interaction I am prepared to take an 'experimental treatment. That is my choice and I don't want it taken away from me.
Good to know :D

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:51 pm

Beachcomber wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:53 pm
Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:05 pm Nobody is forcing anyone to have the vaccine.
Of course they are. Nurses, care home staff, police, to name just a few. Theoretically they may refuse but it means their career prospects come to an abrupt end.
I guess you have never tried to to fire someone in Spain especially in the public sector? It is next to impossible to fire a public servant in Spain.

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby steve_w » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:59 pm

The vaccines that have so far been approved for use in the UK and the EU are not 'experimental'.

See this Fact Check by Reuters for further details ... https://www.reuters.com/article/factche ... SL1N2M70MW.

Yes, I know that this will get the anti-vaxxers chattering. :roll:

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby steve_w » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:47 am

katy wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:02 pm Bit of an about turn when they were taking the pizz out of UK for administrating the first dose. Nil confidence in it anyway if the Queen couldn't sit next to her Son who has had the virus and has been vaccinated what is the point.
According to today's Daily Telegraph:

[The] research on Covid-19 patients admitted to UK hospitals examined the outcomes for all patients – including those who had received at least one jab, and had sufficient time to build immunity. Early findings show that of 74,405 Covid-19 cases admitted to hospitals between September and March, just 32 had received a vaccine at least three weeks before.

Scientists said the findings – which amount to around one case per 2,300 patients – showed that vaccines worked “extraordinarily well”, offering protection far above the levels which had been anticipated.

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firsttango
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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby firsttango » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:54 am

Since when did Government figures become believable and trustworthy. :lol:

But anyway didn't they tell us that the Vaccine was 100% effective against Hospitalisation? :wink:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... ths-today/

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby El Cid » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:25 am

Andalucia has rejected the government's suggestion to delay the second dose.

Sid

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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:53 am

firsttango wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:54 am Since when did Government figures become believable and trustworthy. :lol:

But anyway didn't they tell us that the Vaccine was 100% effective against Hospitalisation? :wink:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... ths-today/
The devil is in the detail

DT headline from March sites a US study based on people having full immunization, which is 2 doses, being 100% effective against hospitalisation

Where as the DT today states 'including those who had received at least one jab'

So it is comparing apples with oranges if you compare the two stories

Also 1 in 2,300 is 99.99565% effective, which is 100% when rounded to zero decimal places.

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firsttango
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Re: Covid Vaccinations Spain

Postby firsttango » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:59 am

Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:53 am
firsttango wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:54 am Since when did Government figures become believable and trustworthy. :lol:

But anyway didn't they tell us that the Vaccine was 100% effective against Hospitalisation? :wink:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... ths-today/
The devil is in the detail

DT headline from March sites a US study based on people having full immunization, which is 2 doses, being 100% effective against hospitalisation

Where as the DT today states 'including those who had received at least one jab'

So it is comparing apples with oranges if you compare the two stories

Also 1 in 2,300 is 99.99565% effective, which is 100% when rounded to zero decimal places.
:lol: :lol: :lol: Nice try, but utter b*****ks


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