Vaccine war with EU

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Beachcomber
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:23 pm

Yes, I think so too.

alpineSi
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby alpineSi » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:30 pm

Beachcomber wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:38 pm Can you please show the source for the claim that it 'saves 99,5+% of lives'.
Fair enough, there is no scientific way to know if someone who has a vaccine would have died without it.

You can avoid the point I was making, but I just flipped the statistic, very roughly, of people who suffer seriously from having the vaccine. Indeed some studies say the most who died post-vaccine were 0.002% and even in those cases, any links to the vaccines are rarely found (underlying conditions etc). So we know that the vaccines do not harm the overwhelming majority of people who take them (link). If you prefer, mentally edit my post and change "save 99.5%+ of lives" to "endanger less than 0.5% of lives".

We also know after decades of study that various legal and taxed poisons have zero benefit at all to the body and consume the resources of our health services too. For those reasons, and issues like secondhand smoke affecting others, those are much more relevant than your analogy of a faulty car.

And yep, I accept that just like with tobacco, maybe fifty years down the line we'll look back at these vaccines while shaking our heads at some sort of problem with them. But the ongoing death toll and impact of 'long Covid' on unvaccinated people proves we cannot afford to take any off the market just because a statisically insignificant number might have become sick from them.

alpineSi
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby alpineSi » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:32 pm

Wicksey wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:54 pm
alpineSi wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:40 pm While we still have mass-produced and legally distributed poisons like alcohol, tobacco, and sugar, any protests about the availability of vaccines that save 99.9+% of lives and prevent long term health damage just seem weak, to say the least.
I thought that the survival rate of those having had Covid was 99.something %. The reported efficiency of vaccines I thought was much lower. I think the flu jab is around 60% effective for prevention.
"Fake news" as they say! https://fullfact.org/online/covid-death-rate-under-60/

Beachcomber
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:51 pm

If you believe those fake 'fact checkers' you will believe anything.

Isn't it strange that last year every death was due to covid and even one death allegedly from covid was one too many but deaths, even within hours of being injected, are being dismissed as being a coincidence even in healthy victims and are sanctimoniouly described for the greater good. Tell that to the families of the victims.

The indoctrination is obviously working, at least for the time being.

alpineSi
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby alpineSi » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:09 pm

Beachcomber wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:51 pm If you believe those fake 'fact checkers' you will believe anything.

The indoctrination is obviously working, at least for the time being.
This would seem like the perfect opportunity for you to share your seemingly more reliable source of a 99% COVID-infection survival rate. Though if the link is Facebook, YouTube, the Daily Mail, or any 'TheTruthRevealed-BillGatesSatan' blog, then I'm not even going to glance at it and you should be shamed for spreading such dangerous disinformation.

Beachcomber
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby Beachcomber » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:04 pm

I certainly have never been a Fakebook user and I avoid the others when ever I can but Worldometer will have to do.

It currently shows 122.069.073 cases and 2.696.188 deaths which works out at an overall death rate of 2,21% so the survival rate is 97,79% but this is obviously an average over the entire age range. The 99,??% was the percentage stated for, I think, under 50 years of age but 70+ is only 94% so it averages out.

Either way, I would prefer to take my chances with the virus rather than an unapproved, experimental gene therapy injection.

El Cid
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby El Cid » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:22 pm

I think these recent posts regarding the arguable risks of the vaccine would be more appropriate on the New Religion thread. Any posts involving dubious statistics and conspiracy theory are better in the Amigos Lounge as public access to that is not allowed.

I won't move these posts, but please can you post in the Amigos Lounge thread where appropriate.

Lets just concentrate for this thread with the EU Vaccine war, which is more about politics than statistics.

Sid

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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby markwilding » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:24 pm

The AstraZeneca jab in going to resume next week in Spain but exclude certain groups. .Many other countries start again tomorrow

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavi ... d=msedgntp.

Beachcomber
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby Beachcomber » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:45 am

I have been over all of this in the New Religion thread. I certainly don't want to repeat it all here.

On the subject of Astra Seneca, this is from the European Medical Agency:

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid ... lood-clots

Time will tell.

Manchesteral
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby Manchesteral » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:29 am

katy wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:09 pm Interview with minister for tourism live on TV in Benidorm yesterday. He was very optimistic and said they were relying on the Brits to be back in Benidorm. Actually looked very nice, smart bars on the Paseo and pristine beach. Would spend a couple of weeks there if it were always like that.

I am not quite, but almost, say 99.999 percent sure that you are takng the yellow liquid out of us :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pamela1
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby Pamela1 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:17 am

Maybe this should be discussed in the travel and tourism section.

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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby Lavanda » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:52 am

I'm very bored with this whole Covid thing. It seems to have done the rounds of all the possible permutations of just about everything. After the recent EU posturing on a British developed vaccine — with all the scare tactics in discrediting the thing — there is now the complete U-turn by the EU. It's political and, in my opinion, always has been. No one in 'charge' seems to give flying pig about what people want or think. Imagine people having been injected with Astra-Zen to then be told they might died of a blood clot. Imagine the stress. Imagine the panic. We seem to be controlled by deranged people inventing ever more demented and hysterical things with which to play games and terrify and therefore control the people more completely. The whole thing, from start to finish, is ridiculous. People die. Last year they died of Covid— but not the flu or even bus accidents or anything else much — and next year it will be something different; maybe even the flu. In any event, people die. We need to remember that and live life to the full before it is our turn to die which will surely come one day.

Pamela1
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby Pamela1 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:39 am

Good post Lavanda :thumbup:

katy
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby katy » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:06 pm

I am bored too Lavanda, propaganda and smears everywhere, people sniping at each other. Our local villages forum has always been friendly and helpful but (in between the ads from NHS and Gov.) found out there are some real nutty curtain twitchers.
There seems to be an agenda coming out of Brussels. Wonder what comes next. One theory today is that big Pharma companies are behind it, they don't like the fact that AZ is too cheap. I didn't know that Pfizer is dependant on a Yorkshire Company for some of it's components.

Let's reassure ourselves that in time this virus will become nothing more than a common cold, according to Scientists. Hope it happens before WW3 breaks out :D

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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby olive » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:02 pm

Big Pharma companies have declared that when the pandemic is over, they will be charging more for the vaccine. Nice.

El Cid
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby El Cid » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:06 pm

Many, specifically AZ, are charging on a cost, no profit basis at the moment.

Sid

markwilding
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby markwilding » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:37 pm

Most people use the excess death rate to analyse the devastating impact Covid has had. Both Spain and the UK have seen substantial rises over the last 12 months. I don't think anyone isn't fed up with the situation but for the moment many retain the belief that until it's over, we have to continue with the measures.
This is quite interesting but it's more than the headline and shows the changing situation throughout Europe throughout last year and some odd results in some other countries death rates,
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medica ... d=msedgntp

katy
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby katy » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:55 pm

News this morning is that UK is not the highest in 2nd wave, still in the top ten though. Pointless contest as different methods of counting.
France is now giving the AZ jab only to over 55s. Before it was al reves :roll:


Clip from telegraph article
Ursula von der Leyen has invoked the nuclear option of the Lisbon Treaty. By threatening to activate emergency powers under Article 122 she has told the world that Europe is no longer a safe place for private capital or inward investment.

The clause allows Brussels to seize factories, take direct control over the production process and redirect vaccine flows. It enables war-time occupation of companies.

A regime that behaves like this is liable to impose capital controls without compunction, or block energy flows through the interconnectors, as has been threatened three times already (I keep count). And as we have seen, anything can be politicised, even random stochastic blood clots. Will global pharma ever build a plant again on EU territory after this episode?

“We want to see reciprocity and proportionality in exports,” said Mrs Von der Leyen. Delicious. The EU is currently refusing to reciprocate temporary UK waivers to smooth post-Brexit trade flows or to reciprocate on bare-bond equivalence in financial services.

If these daily antics from Brussels and Berlin continue, the eye-wateringly large capital outflows from the eurozone that have already been occurring may accelerate into something closer to outright capital flight.

HSBC says outflows reached half a trillion euros in the fourth quarter, an annualised pace of 20pc of GDP. It quickened to €250bn (£214bn) in the single month of December. The scale is breathtaking. It happened before the vaccine debacle condemned Europe to an extra quarter of economic recession and social despair.

katy
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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby katy » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:40 pm

katy wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:06 pm
There seems to be an agenda coming out of Brussels. Wonder what comes next. One theory today is that big Pharma companies are behind it, they don't like the fact that AZ is too cheap. I didn't know that Pfizer is dependant on a Yorkshire Company for some of it's components.

Let's reassure ourselves that in time this virus will become nothing more than a common cold, according to Scientists. Hope it happens before WW3 breaks out :D
More on the Yorkshire supplies here. Pfizer warns EU.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/pfiz ... 25289.html

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Re: Vaccine war with EU

Postby katy » Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:59 pm

Looking more like the run up to WW3 :wink: Hope Boris doesn't retaliate and sink to EU Commission levels. Still looks like a smokescreen to deflect from the botched ordering 3 months late. Rumoured that there could be as many as 17 million AZ vaccines stashed around Europe. Some don't want it, other countries like France only giving it to over 55s. Spain haven't made up their mind yet on age groups. Macron will be disappointed to read this from a large survey in USA and South America.


AstraZeneca's vaccine is '100% effective' against severe Covid: US trial of jab saw NO deaths or hospitalisations and found it works just as well in over-65s and does not cause blood clots


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