Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

For tips, tricks and secrets on good health, beauty, fitness and sport join this forum.
Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 10847
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:04 pm

I have started this thread for discussions about injections and reactions, etc. that are not permitted in other threads because they do not strictly conform to the title of the thread and are considered to be off topic but which are too important to be tucked away in the Amigos Lounge.

Firstly the latest update from the Yellow Card reporting system:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -reactions

Let us also reiterate that none of the injections have been approved. They are still undergoing clinical trials which will not be concluded until 2023 and have been given emergency use authorisation only as described in this paragraph on the above web site:

"Regulation 174 authorisation

Temporary authorisation for supply of a medicine or vaccine by the UK Department of Health and Social Care and the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency. This temporary authorisation grants permission for a medicine (vaccine) to be used for active immunisation to prevent COVID-19 disease caused by SARS-CoV-2 virus. Authorisation is subject to a number of conditions. These are available for each vaccine on the MHRA website."


Note the paragraph in this Microsoft News web site:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB1fEx5Y

"Currently, no coronavirus vaccine is fully approved by the FDA, but three were given emergency use authorization by the agency."

In the European Union they now call it 'Conditional marketing authorisation':

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regu ... horisation

The injections are experimental as confirmed by the US governmental National Institutes of Health:

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-res ... -effective

Most of this information is difficult to find from official sources but it is there in government web sites of the United Kingdom, the USA and the European Union and it is important that people who are unsure about whether or not to be injected are in possession of all the facts as stated on these various government websites.

It is called 'informed consent' and, having read the official information, anyone who decides to rely on their own natural innate immune system to protect them from a virus which has a 99+% survival rate should be entitled to do so without harassment, ridicule or bullying.

User avatar
firsttango
Resident
Posts: 1728
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:34 pm
Location: Velez-Malaga

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby firsttango » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:22 pm

Great thread idea and a cracking opening post :clap: ........very informative and as you say the information is virtual impossible to view on MSM but is out there if you do some deep research. But even so there'll undoubtably be the avid jab enthusiasts with their perma rolled up shirt sleeve that will still cry "fake news"

El Cid
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 15412
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:42 pm
Location: La Herradura, Costa Tropical, Granada

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby El Cid » Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:30 pm

Most people who are happy to have the vaccine just make their own decision and certainly don’t cry Fake News.

I made the decision to have it as, based on the evidence, if I got Covid I have about a 90% chance of it killing me based on other existing medical conditions etc. The chance of a problem with having the vaccine (and I am not denying that there are risks) is tiny in comparison.

That’s my situation and many others will have different risk profiles and make their own decisions.

Sid

User avatar
firsttango
Resident
Posts: 1728
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:34 pm
Location: Velez-Malaga

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby firsttango » Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:38 pm

Indeed so its a good thing that they get all the information thats available on which to base their decision, much of which is not readily available on MSM platforms.

katy
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 13199
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:45 pm

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby katy » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:07 pm

I think it is early days yet , so many stories in the news of people dropping dead and dozens of other complaints. Similar to the first lockdown when people reported as having no underlying causes turned out to have several. I am not antivacc (I am anti lockdowns and propaganda). Have taken so many vaccines in my life without ever looking into side effects.. I would like to see more correlative data and stats because eg blood clots are frequent in the population at anytime so surely when 35 million have been vaccinated statistically some would have had blood clots, shingles and numerous other complaints which may not be related to the vaccine. Every health scare that is publicised for anything leads to numerous visits to GPs by people with imaginary illnesses. Of course there are some people who shouldn't be having the vaccine but many will already know that or their GP will. I don't mind if people don't want it, never been a covid bully and I am willing to read other views (except woman drops dead stories in the Mail :wink: ).

What I didn't know until today is that the UK Government pays up to £120,000 compensation to those who have disabilities after receiving the virus.

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 10847
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:11 pm

For 'UK Government' read 'UK Tax-payer'

Here are the Product Information Leaflets for each of the companies involved:

Pfizer:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... Gy3XFQ935H

Moderna:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... LXtv7-xAZB

AstraZeneca:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 4lmW5_QHMS

Janssen:

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/ ... ion_en.pdf

They are all produced by the drug manufacturers themselves and open as PDF documents and are the equivalent of the leaflets you get in every packet of medication.

These are supposed to be offered to every prospective recipient of the injection before they are given it. I wonder how many people are provided with the leaflet and given time to read and digest it?

Superplonk
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:06 pm
Location: Coin

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby Superplonk » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:27 am

Could you add links to the equivalent leaflets for statins, aspirin and contraceptive pills? For fairness I'd also like to see a risk comparison for me sharing my car with another unvaccinated person, the risk of crossing a busy road or coming down the stairs with a basket of washing.

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 816
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:41 am

Beachcomber wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:04 pm I have started this thread for discussions about injections and reactions, etc. that are not permitted in other threads because they do not strictly conform to the title of the thread and are considered to be off topic but which are too important to be tucked away in the Amigos Lounge.

Firstly the latest update from the Yellow Card reporting system:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -reactions

Let us also reiterate that none of the injections have been approved. They are still undergoing clinical trials which will not be concluded until 2023 and have been given emergency use authorisation only as described in this paragraph on the above web site:

"Regulation 174 authorisation

Temporary authorisation for supply of a medicine or vaccine by the UK Department of Health and Social Care and the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency. This temporary authorisation grants permission for a medicine (vaccine) to be used for active immunisation to prevent COVID-19 disease caused by SARS-CoV-2 virus. Authorisation is subject to a number of conditions. These are available for each vaccine on the MHRA website."


Note the paragraph in this Microsoft News web site:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB1fEx5Y

"Currently, no coronavirus vaccine is fully approved by the FDA, but three were given emergency use authorization by the agency."

In the European Union they now call it 'Conditional marketing authorisation':

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regu ... horisation

The injections are experimental as confirmed by the US governmental National Institutes of Health:

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-res ... -effective

Most of this information is difficult to find from official sources but it is there in government web sites of the United Kingdom, the USA and the European Union and it is important that people who are unsure about whether or not to be injected are in possession of all the facts as stated on these various government websites.

It is called 'informed consent' and, having read the official information, anyone who decides to rely on their own natural innate immune system to protect them from a virus which has a 99+% survival rate should be entitled to do so without harassment, ridicule or bullying.
Could you break the 99+% survival rate down by age group to help me with my and my family's informed consent for our own particular circumstances.

I love to read about data so would you also have a link to the study showing the 99+% overall survival rate? Also is that survival rate also true for an overwhelmed health service like India. I mean will the survival rate be the same if no medical care is available?

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 10847
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:10 pm

The current World Health Organisation data show an average survival rate of 97,88% across all age ranges.

More information and breakdown of data can be found here:

https://covid19.who.int/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw ... 8MEALw_wcB

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7327471/

https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 816
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:52 pm

So I guess the 99+% survival rate was from another study? So I did a bit of digging on the data that would feed the WHO official figures (the 97.88%) survival rate, and I got a breakdown by age of the survival rate (graph below)

I think given the 21% fatality rate that my 83 year old step father get vaccinated, or would you disagree? Is the fatality rate from vaccination higher for his age group?

Would this fatality rate increase if the medical system was overwhelmed and unable to treat people or is the fatality rate constant even if the infected person is unable to get medical treatment?

Screenshot_20210426-134219_Chrome.jpg

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 10847
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:40 pm

The figures don't mean much anyway. Deaths are counted as being from covid if someone died within 60 or 28 days of a positive test result. This doesn't mean that they died from covid or even as a result of covid but deaths of older people are going to be higher anyway as they are in any other circumstance.

It is impossible to balance the risk against deaths from the injection because only a small percentage of adverse reactions and deaths make it into the statistics and the ones that do are claimed to be a coincidence even if someone died within a few hours of the injection.

It is the decision of the individual whether, or not, they should be injected but everyone should be in full possession of the relevant information including the fact that none of the drugs have been approved, that they are all experimental and do not protect from infection or transmission but merely relieve the clinical symptoms, and also the number of deaths and adverse reactions reported by the various recording systems. They should also be given the opportunity to read the product information leaflet prior to being injected.

Trying to obfuscate these facts with petty arguments does not help anybody especially those that die or are severely injured as a result of being injected.

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 10847
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:26 pm

And anyone interested in statistics can track the latest adverse reactions in Europe by age, sex, country, seriousness etc here:

http://www.adrreports.eu/en/search_subst.html

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 816
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:35 pm

So in summary do you mean that none of the figures can be trusted?

User avatar
knowal
Resident
Posts: 1872
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:35 pm
Location: Garden of England
Contact:

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby knowal » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:41 pm

The more information available the better.
In England, the product information leaflet is given to the recipient after the dose has been injected!

I'm happy to make an informed decision based on my own risk assessment. However, we all need to bear in mind that after 3 years no one knows what the long term effects will be. They could range from negligible to death as long term tests were impossible owing to the perceived ongoing emergency.
(Perceived by many governments, I might say.)

Beachcomber
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 10847
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:11 pm
Location: Guadalhorce Valley

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby Beachcomber » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:47 pm

After the dose has been injected? It's a bit late if you then read it and decide you would rather not have taken the risk. But maybe that's the idea.

User avatar
firsttango
Resident
Posts: 1728
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:34 pm
Location: Velez-Malaga

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby firsttango » Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:59 pm

Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:52 pm So I guess the 99+% survival rate was from another study? So I did a bit of digging on the data that would feed the WHO official figures (the 97.88%) survival rate, and I got a breakdown by age of the survival rate (graph below)

I think given the 21% fatality rate that my 83 year old step father get vaccinated, or would you disagree? Is the fatality rate from vaccination higher for his age group?

Would this fatality rate increase if the medical system was overwhelmed and unable to treat people or is the fatality rate constant even if the infected person is unable to get medical treatment?


Screenshot_20210426-134219_Chrome.jpg

Nov 2020?? well out of date so in all probability statistically highly inaccurate..bit more digging required :wink:

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 816
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:13 pm

I deliberately chose that period so that it was before anyone got vaccinated. If I chose after the vaccinations had begun it would have skewed the numbers because older people were vaccinated first. Hence there would not have been correct death rates for unvaccinated people.

I am not so sure statistics and probability were your strong subjects at school

User avatar
firsttango
Resident
Posts: 1728
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:34 pm
Location: Velez-Malaga

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby firsttango » Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:46 pm

Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:13 pm I deliberately chose that period so that it was before anyone got vaccinated. If I chose after the vaccinations had begun it would have skewed the numbers because older people were vaccinated first. Hence there would not have been correct death rates for unvaccinated people.

I am not so sure statistics and probability were your strong subjects at school
In all probability you may be statistically correct but really no need to be personal :wink:

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 816
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:15 pm

Just makes me wonder why you repeatedly personally ridicule me and my abilities with numbers when you are admitting that you have no idea about statistics or probabilities?

Anyway back on subject. So as per my earlier question, should we not trust any numbers supplied to us?

User avatar
firsttango
Resident
Posts: 1728
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:34 pm
Location: Velez-Malaga

Re: Pro Innate Immunity or Anti Vax - Adverse reactions, Etc

Postby firsttango » Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:37 pm

You tell us....you're the "rainman" here


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests