Help please

[dougal991]

Hi Everyone
We have been in the process of (trying) to buy a house in Spain since June this year but have not been satisfied that the "paperwork" is in order. We had a contract that had a the provision for a date by which it all had to be in order by, this expired ages ago so we have now decided to set ourselves a date by which it needs to be in order or we are backing out. The advice I need is
1. is this a normal length of time for a sale to go through?
2. must you have an NIE for the sale to proceed?
3. If the boundaries are certified by a notary can you take it as being all above board?
Many Thanks
Dougal

[peteroldracer]

IMHO:
1 - There is no such thing as normal, when it comes to property.
2 - Yes
3 - The only thing about the law and property in Spain is that nothing is ever certain to be above board.

[julian]

what point sin the paperwork are you not satisfied with to be able to complete??

[Retro P]

Julian, firstly I agree with all of Peters points, If you, yourself have put parameters on what constitutes "the correct paperwork" and if you are not satisfied with the result then maybe you should (a) start kicking ars*s or (b) back out.
The best that you can ever hope for in life is that you die in your sleep!

[dougal991]

Thanks for your replies. The main point of concern is that we were first shown a plan of the property which included the house area and the land with it. When we came to check the deeds only the house was shown and it seems to have taken forever to sort out the deeds for the land.

[julian]

whether it is normal for it to take so long depends on what the problem with the deeds is. if the land has never been previously registered and this is the first registration it could "normally" take 2 years, but if it is just some minor problem it could be fixed in a week. I think you really need to find out exactly what the problem is, it could be something that under no circumstances should you complete without it being sorted out, or it could be an unimportant detail that you yourselves could sort out after the sale. as I say , I think you need to find out the exact position with the deeds.

[peteroldracer]

My initial response was, I admit, a bit on the cynical side (!), but buying an old property here, getting the plans done and approved, then getting the "reform" carried out to any sort of standard, within a very protracted timescale, getting the land and house registered as one item, and getting an escritura has made me that way!
We have used 4 lawyers, all of which were less than competent in some way, ended up dealing with the land registry ourselves, have accepted that builders here do not understand clocks and calendars, or that a squared room means that there should only be two equal dimensions opposite each other, with 90° corners, or that when we say that something is not good enough it doesn't mean that we either want it for nothing or that we have just changed our minds....
We would never, ever again buy anything except if it was completely finished, has been there for some years, has escritura and plans that can be checked at the land registry, and is being sold without any cash-in-envelopes deal.
If anything does not fit every bit of the above, walk away and buy something else - or even more sensible, rent something!

[Wicksey]

With similar past experiences to Peter, I would agree entirely with him. It took us 6 years to get the deeds for our land, as it had not previously been segregated. We were told by our lawyer later that we were lucky to get it sorted out at all! I know someone who is in their 7th year of trying to get the deeds for their property. I don't think we're being cynical as we speak from experience and I wouldn't like anyone else to go through what we did.

[katy]

Good post Peter People come here for a relaxed life, not years of hassle.

[dougal991]

Thanks again everyone. We are hoping to visit again in the new year and would think from your comments that I need to be satisfied the deeds cover all the areas that were on the original plan. If not I think the best bet will be to walk away and rent for a while. This however raises some more questions, do old reformed houses with full deeds and Escritura exist? and if the deeds are in order is it safe to buy and wait for the escritura at a later date? or are they one and the same. I have also read through other threads that it is essential to get a good solicitor, how do you know who is a good one we have no friends or relatives out there who we can consult with so to a certain extent have had to take pot luck.

[annie_d]

Hello Dougal. Where in Spain are you looking to buy/rent?

[dougal991]

Hi Annie, round the Albox area

[julian]

escritura=deeds

[peteroldracer]

do old reformed houses with full deeds and Escritura exist?

Possibly - but it took us a while to realise that most Spaniards just do not bother with the paperwork. They are probably never going to sell the place, and that is the only time that proper title etc will matter - unless they are selling to a Brit, who will let the desire for a place in the sun override common sense!

[annie_d]

We had a similar problem i think Dougal ( i haven't got very involved in the whole to-do) To finally get the deeds for the house AND the land took 14 months though fortunately we were in no hurry and when we did finally get them the lawyer was very pleased with himself that the whole affair had been conducted so quickly.

[katy]

According to another forum there are a lot of problems around Albox..be careful!

[dougal991]

Thanks again for your comments, as it is not a new build I don't see I have a problem with it being an illegal build? and as we are in no hurry to complete I think we will take our time and make sure (to our satisfaction) that we are getting what we are paying for. If the seller wants to put it back on the market then so be it, with the present climate I don't think there will be masses of interest immediately anyway.
Thanks again for your comments they have been of great help
PS if the whats the worst scenario if you haven't got the papers together before you have bought

[peteroldracer]

Some of the property in Marbella that is now being revealed as illegal is far from new, so don't assume.....
Worst case is that it will turn out to be illegal and an order made for it to be demolished (unlikely, probably), or that the land that you think you are buying is not what eventually is agreed (more likely) and that the boundaries are unclear, or a right-of-way exists across where you plan to put the pool and you are banned from fencing it, or that there are loans secured against the property and you may be faced with having to repay them even if it means selling the place to do so...............
Well, you did ask for "worst case" !

[julian]

Peter, I think you forget to mention that "the end of the world is nigh"

[dougal991]

Thanks Peter You are right I did ask for the worst case scenario, gulp!!
I suppose though in the end you can only take all the precautions you can think of and then ask someone else as well. We are definately coming to Spain but it just seems we will have to be very careful.