Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!!!

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gill&ers
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Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!!!

Postby gill&ers » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:23 am

Hello,

We have paid the deposit to reserve a property that my partner and I think is the one! Prior to paying the deposit, our lawyer had said that the property is in two municipalities Algarrobo/Arenas as the border runs through the outdoor space/pool of the property.
Even though the plot is mainly in Arenas the property is registered at the Torrox land registry. He also said that the sellers lawyer(s) over the last 5 years have attempted to change the land registry to Arenas, but to no avail.

Our lawyer has come back to us with his searches. It has two Catastral numbers it seems one for Algarrobo and one for Arenas and it appears that both areas have a different address for the plot. It is registered in Torrox but we have also been given paperwork dated 2016 from Arenas Town Hall confirming they are aware of the property.

The contract to be signed states only one catastral number and address.... for where the property/land is currently registered.

The catastral shows the size of the plot and the building/pool is also registered but there is a small descrepency with the size of the build (15 square m) which we will need to pay an architect to have amended....

The lawyer seems to think everything regarding this property is rectifiable ( but we will ask him what the previous lawyers did and why they weren’t successful.... and what he would do to be any different)

The oldest part of the property is 90+ years old and the extension is 14 years old, so we have been assured it is all legal and won’t be knocked down.

The owner does pay IBI tax.... there’s electricity and water......

Should we be backing away from the property? Is all of this a major headache.... and certainly a financial nightmare? The lawyer thinks it will be fine and we can live in it with no problems and even rent it out when we add aircon.

Obviously we couldn’t even consider getting a DAFO until all of this is resolved.

Any help/advice would be really appreciated.

Many thanks
Last edited by gill&ers on Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby gill&ers » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:25 am

Oh..... we are currently in the UK. This will be a holiday home. But we will move over for the winter months or more when we retire in 10 years (hopefully less) !!!!
Last edited by gill&ers on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby Beachcomber » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:08 am

These problems need to be resolved by the current owner before you purchase. Only proceed on that condition and that the holding deposit will be returned if the problems cannot be resolved to your satisfaction.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby gill&ers » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:25 am

Hi Beachcomber. Thank you for your reply. We placed the deposit knowing that there was a discrepancy with the plot and where it was registered, mainly because we were assured that it could be solved but would take time. It seems the current owner has tried over the years to sort it, probably so he can sell it, but unsuccessfully.
If we continue to purchase it, we are knowingly taking on this issue. We have been assured that we can live in it as a holiday home, or rent it short term if we get air-con etc.... we have more time on our side to do this I guess as the current owner is older and not well. We are not buying it to sell, we are happy for it to be a holiday home/ home to pass down to our children.
We offered €20,000 less to cover the finances that will accumulate.... although I’m sure it will cost more.

Just wondering if anyone has experienced this (plot in two municipalities) issue or know of anyone who has experienced this.

That villa is lovely..... the heart is saying GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!

Argh!....
Last edited by gill&ers on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby Wicksey » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:55 am

Is the later extension the 15m2 not on the deeds? Is it in the Campo as I didn't think they gave permission to build extensions. That would be another thing that needs to be sorted. The owners are responsible for doing a dafo and if they cannot get one then that would further confirm that there are problems that cannot be rectified. You may not want to sell it again but be cautious. Be careful of lawyers who say it's all in order and any problems can be sorted out after you've bought it. If it can be resolved then it should be before you buy it!

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby gill&ers » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:23 am

Many thanks for your reply Wicksey. The outline of the property on the Catastra seems right, so I’m sure it’s not a whole room that isn’t on there which may need knocking down as it was built illegally.
The DAFO definitely can’t be done until everything on the land registry is right..... so if we want it, we need to take on the problems too..... but I really have no idea on costs. I know it’s roughly €2500 for an architect.... €3000 to have a septic tank installed.... leagal fees over I don’t know how many years to amend the land registry....
.... I’m assuming there will always be a question mark with the property if the border of two municipalities runs through the plot!

Are we just being fools?......
Last edited by gill&ers on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby gill&ers » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:25 am

..... and yes, I do worry that the lawyer may try to brush over the complexity of the situation.... and say it can be done. If it can, why haven’t the other lawyers succeeded!
Last edited by gill&ers on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby Wicksey » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:35 pm

Sounds risky as you're not sure exactly what future difficulties you may be taking on. I think I'd want more than a 20k discount!

We unknowingly bought unsegregated land and had a house built illegally 25 years ago before the days of all the info there is now on the internet and in forums. It took us 8 years to get everything in order and in those days it was also a lot easier to 'regularise' properties. I wouldn't knowingly take on anything with potential problems again.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby peteroldracer » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:10 pm

I agree that this is one to walk away from, unless you accept beachcomber’s mantra not to buy a property in Spain unless you are prepared and can afford to lose all your money.
Too many possible complications here I feel - what if both councils want to charge you IBI? Who do you get a licence from if you want to do some work? Why buy something with known problems when you want a relaxing place with no stress?
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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby Beachcomber » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:14 pm

Yes, I agree. If you really want to take the risk and take it on as a project €20.000 off the asking price is nothing. I don't know what the asking price is but you should consider offering two thirds or even half because there are obviously no guarantees that this can be resolved.

The lawyer probably has € symbols where his eyeballs should be in anticipation of his ongoing fees. Ask him if the 'regularisation' work will be included in the fee he is charging you for the purchase or if he will waive the fee if he is unsuccessful.

The outline on the Catastro plan has no legal standing. It does not mean that what is shown on the plan is legal. It is compiled from aerial photographs and just shows that is has been taken into consideration in respect of the calculation of the valor catastral upon which the IBI is based.

If you are buying this property with 'pocket money' that you can afford to lose, fine but do not look upon it as any kind of investment. You say you would be happy to just keep it and pass it on to your children but are you sure they would want it? Many older people are now trying to sell because their children are just not interested.

Do not let your heart rule your head and remember something I have repeated many times on this forum, do not buy a property in Spain unless you can afford to lose all of the money.

(I was just going to post this when I saw that Peter had beaten me to it!)

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby elusive » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:20 pm

gill&ers wrote:Oh..... we are currently in the UK. This will be a holiday home. But we will move over for the winter months or more when we retire in 10 years (hopefully less) !!!!
If you are a british passport holder be aware of the post brexit rules for the amount of time you can spend in spain (or any other schengen country) if you arent a resident. i know several people who have been put off buying because the main purpose was to use it as a 4-5-6 month winter holiday home. Which wont be legally possible after 2020. Ontop of worries of not being able to become resident at a later time to move here full time as they wont have enough income to get a visa as a non EU national

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby elusive » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:29 pm

gill&ers wrote:..... and yes, I do worry that the lawyer may try to brush over the complexity of the situation.... and say it can be done. If it can, why haven’t the other lawyers succeeded!
I totally agree. If it could have been sorted in the past why wasnt it. That would be a big warning light to me. The lawyer probably just wants his % fee so of course wants you to buy. When the you know what hits the fan down the road then the lawyer wont care.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby costakid » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:28 pm

you sound like your heart is ruling your head. If it could be sorted why hasn't the previous owner sorted it out. If he is Spanish and can't sort it you defiantly will not be able too. Walk away or tell them to sort it and then you will buy.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby gill&ers » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:47 pm

Thank you so much to everyone for your help and advice.

I guess we think that lawyers can help, lawyers are honest and lawyers are accountable... maybe in the U.K. not so much in Spain from the sounds of things.

We do love the property but I know we wouldn’t enjoy the heartache.

You read horror stories and think that that would never happen to you.

There’s a lot to think about. Sigh

The property is soooo lovely though!!!!!
Last edited by gill&ers on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby gill&ers » Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:17 pm

It was originally on at €375000. If we can get it for €280000...... would that be a good deal?

Crikey...... I sound like I want the property regardless of the hurdles, but your words are definitely bringing me down to Earth.

Two catastral references.... two addresses..... possibly two IBI taxes..... hmmmmm.... it is a lot of money to lose or put into a property that no one will ever want to buy. :roll:
Last edited by gill&ers on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby Enrique » Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:03 pm

Hi gill&ers,

"We are not buying it to sell, we are happy for it to be a holiday home/ home to pass down to our children."............so you could enjoy 30 odd years without the hassle of having the "correct" paperwork.
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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby Wicksey » Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:11 pm

What size is the house and land, how many bedrooms? 375k sounds a lot for a campo house in Arenas.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby gill&ers » Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:17 pm

Hello,

“What size is the house and land, how many bedrooms? 375k sounds a lot for a campo house in Arenas”
The build is 360m2 the land only 1000m2 but that suits us as low maintenance. It has 5 bedrooms and does need modernising in the kitchen and bathroom. Beautiful stairs and tiles though. Other properties for sale near by are similar in price.

Is it too pricey? We love Algorrobo area and Torre Del Mar.

Sigh...... again!!
Last edited by gill&ers on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby Enrique » Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:21 pm

Hi,
Up this way a 4 bed Campo House with land , olives and out buildings will go for 140-160k.
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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby gill&ers » Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:50 pm

“Up this way a 4 bed Campo House with land , olives and out buildings will go for 140-160k”

Is that in € ? Which location is that? This property is walking distance to Algarrobo. You can sea the sea from the property.... not that that’s worth €100,000 extra? Everything in the area where we have been looking is a similar price too.... on all the property search websites!

Would love it to be as low as €160,000.
Last edited by gill&ers on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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