Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!!!

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby Wicksey » Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:17 pm

Wow that's a huge house. Ours is less than a third of the size of that and accordingly barely worth 200K even though it is close to the pueblo and has lovely sea views. 5 bed properties in Torrox campo would probably be more than 375K. If you want to be in the area and have a large (legal) property then you are probably looking at that price range. You'd need to be much further inland to get pay a lot less.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby peteroldracer » Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:51 pm

One problem with Spain is that there is no equivalent to Zoopla, so all you can see if what people want to get for their house, not what any have sold for. We dropped €40,000 to sell our house in Andalucia as we wanted to move and after a year on the market we had just the one offer. That was a 10yr old 210 sqm 4-bed 3-bath with a pool and 1500 sqm land - and all paperwork in order!
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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby Beachcomber » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:48 pm

I'm not sure if we have established whether this property is classed as rural or urban. Could you please clarify.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby katy » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:59 pm

Is this for real. Pay a deposit when aware there are problems. :shock:

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby El Cid » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:29 pm

Enrique wrote:Hi,
Up this way a 4 bed Campo House with land , olives and out buildings will go for 140-160k.
It so much depends on location and access for Campo houses. Where we are, you would pay more than twice that amount for a 3 bed Campo house if it was legal and had good access and good facilities such as phone and a fast Internet connection. The same house on urban land would go for more than 6 figures.

Location, location, location!

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby elusive » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:28 pm

Personally i would tell them to get the problems sorted and then you will buy. Keep looking for something else. If they really want to sell and the problems can be fixed then let them do it.in the mean time you will prob find something else

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby costakid » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:08 am

its not rocket science, the previous owner has tried to sort the problem and can't. Buy at your peril.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:38 am

gill&ers wrote:... the land only 1000m2...
If this is rural (campo) rather than urban a plot of this size must be pro-indiviso which means you should ask for your money back and pull out of the purchase without any further discussion.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby GerryinCajiz » Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:15 pm

Why would you want a DAFO with a completely legal house?
Gerry

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby gill&ers » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:24 pm

Thank you for all your replies.

It is classed as rural.

We paid a deposit because I guess we naively think that it can get sorted and if we can use it and enjoy it.... and possibly rent it, then the time factor isn’t an issue. But I guess the worry about the time factor is.... how much will it all cost. You’re right, if it can be done, why haven’t the sellers lawyers come to a conclusion on this. I guess our lawyer would say it’s possible..... !!
We have replied to all of our lawyers findings and have said (suggested on this forum) if he were to work on regularising the property on our behalf, would he waiver his fee if he were unsuccessful. Let’s see what he thinks of that.
We really don’t want to mess anyone about, especially the seller. He is Dutch, not Spanish by the way.
We did pay the reservation deposit knowing that the boarder of Algarrobo and Arenas ran through it. We did know that it was registered in Algarrobo (well it says Torrox) and not Arenas. But we didn’t know that there were two catastral numbers and two addresses depending on Arenas address or Algarrobo address! Not sure if that will cause financial issues too. We have asked the lawyer to clarify this issue.

it can’t be knocked down, it is legal, it does have electricity and water, it should all work itself out right?........ right?..... I guess we will see if the lawyer has words of wisdom when he replies.

Thanks again for commenting. You have been very helpful. I really appreciate it.
Last edited by gill&ers on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby maureenscot » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:36 pm

You do not have to leave your enquiries to your 'lawyer'. Take someone who speaks Spanish to both town halls and find out what is really happening re title Deeds, bills etc. Find out for yourself why past lawyers have been unsuccessful. The Dutch seller needs to sort his house out. That is a whole lot of money to invest in something that is not legal. Don't imagine that future generations will want to spend all their holidays there. They would not also want the hassle of trying to sell it. Other that that please, please walk away and do not let your heart rule your head.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby gill&ers » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:41 pm

Beachcomber wrote:
gill&ers wrote:... the land only 1000m2...
If this is rural (campo) rather than urban a plot of this size must be pro-indiviso which means you should ask for your money back and pull out of the purchase without any further discussion.
Hello Beachcomber...., I’m unsure what pro-indiviso means.
Last edited by gill&ers on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby gill&ers » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:51 pm

maureenscot wrote:You do not have to leave your enquiries to your 'lawyer'. Take someone who speaks Spanish to both town halls and find out what is really happening re title Deeds, bills etc. Find out for yourself why past lawyers have been unsuccessful. The Dutch seller needs to sort his house out. That is a whole lot of money to invest in something that is not legal. Don't imagine that future generations will want to spend all their holidays there. They would not also want the hassle of trying to sell it. Other that that please, please walk away and do not let your heart rule your head.
Thank you Maureen. You’re right, this week we will see if we can find out anything further at Town Halls in question.

Sigh... all of this hassle because the plot has a boarder running through it. What a shame!!
Last edited by gill&ers on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby peteroldracer » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:04 pm

Please....at the risk of people accusing me of being from the grammar police, could you write it as “border” rather than “boarder”? The latter is either a breed of collie dog or someone staying in a b&b! It has been amusing to picture a tenant rushing through the villa.
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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby gill&ers » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:11 pm

Duly noted. I haven’t had much need to write about a line separating two areas before so the spelling of the word escaped me!!

Apologies for my ignorance!
Last edited by gill&ers on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the boarder of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:13 pm

I don't think the main problem with this property is the fact that it had a border running through it. If the house had boarders that would be another problem. :lolno:

Pro-indiviso means part share more or less. Plots of rural land cannot be legally divided into ones as small as one thousand square metres. The way around this is to divide up the plots physically (with fences or other boundary markers) but not legally then build individual houses on the smaller plots.

This is not illegal in itself but it means that you own a participation in the whole plot that has been divided up. Let's say that a plot of one hectare is divided up into ten plots of one thousand square metres. If you buy one of these plots you are buying a 10% share in the whole one hectare plot. You are not buying the plot upon which the property stands.

You are, in effect, in a kind of co-operative with nine other owners and if one of these owners should get into some kind of financial difficulty which results in legal action the whole one hectare plot could be embargoed not just 'his own' plot.

As I said, pro-indiviso land is not illegal and it is fine within a large extended family of Spaniards (as long as they don't fall out) but not with nine other people whom you do not know from Adam.

If the property in which you are interested is built on pro-indiviso land it would explain why past attempts to regularise it have failed. The only way the situation could ever be resolved is if the town hall redesignated the area as urban at some time in the dim and distant future.

You can find more references to pro-indiviso on this forum using the search facility. Try with and without the - (dash).

You do not have to use a lawyer for the purchasing process. Northern Europeans tend to do so because it is what the would do in their own country but most Spaniards would never dream of doing so. They obviously have an advantage in that they speak the language but a good translator who specialises in property conveyancing is likely to do a far better job than a lawyer especially if he has some kind of alliance with a notary.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!

Postby gill&ers » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:29 pm

Thank you for such a detailed reply. This property is a 90+ year old Finca with an extension attached with is 12years old (ish). Although the plot size indicates that it would fall under the pro-indiviso, there are only two neighbours in close(ish) proximity so I’m not sure if the land was divided along with their plots. I will mention all of this to the lawyer though, as your points are very interesting and I would like the lawyers view on this. I’m sure the lawyer is going to be very confused as to why I have suddenly become very knowledgeable!

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!!

Postby Beachcomber » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:46 pm

It is difficult to know for sure without seeing the documentation and the location but I would guess that the original finca stood on a much larger plot of land portions of which have since been sold off.

Whether someone managed to do this legally at some time in the past when the law was far more relaxed is anybody's guess but it should be shown quite clearly in the nota simple (extract from the property registry).

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!!

Postby costakid » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:10 pm

without trying to be rude you have asked a question on here, you have been given good advice by the likes of beach but it seems to me you are going to ignore the advice and let your heart rule your head. This is a decision I am sure you will regret. Obviousley its your money and your risk. Good luck because I think you are going to need it.

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Re: Buying a property .... but the border of two municipalities (Algarrobo/Arenas) cuts through the plot!....... Help!!!

Postby gill&ers » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:45 pm

Beachcomber wrote:It is difficult to know for sure without seeing the documentation and the location but I would guess that the original finca stood on a much larger plot of land portions of which have since been sold off.

Whether someone managed to do this legally at some time in the past when the law was far more relaxed is anybody's guess but it should be shown quite clearly in the nota simple (extract from the property registry).
Beachcomber.... your advice is fantastic..... you have raised something that the lawyer hasn’t bothered pointing out......
The nota simple is in Spanish but I can see that it does say property segregated and sold to the east, west and south in various sentences. So I am assuming that the finca was on a larger plot and then the land was split and sold off and three properties built on each segregated plot. This may have all been many years ago. So does this mean that if either of the three properties get into financial difficulty, we could be financially responsible too? If I mention this to the lawyer and he says.. “oh that was years ago, it doesn’t relate to this property” could that be the case or is that just lawyer talk?

Thanks again Beachcomber... you have definitely brought something new to our attention that needs to be address.


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