Record Non-Freesat Channels

[gerryh]

[
First of all, where do you live in Spain, Andalucia is big and Spain is even bigger.

HINT. look at his location. Not that you can be expected to read anything before giving an answer.


Cheers
Gerry

[elmolino]

[
First of all, where do you live in Spain, Andalucia is big and Spain is even bigger.

HINT. look at his location. Not that you can be expected to read anything before giving an answer.


Cheers
Gerry

Hi Garry,

Yes we know but it does not mean this is his home location, thats why I ask for it, most of the locations from users are just an indication, a lon/lat will help even more if you have a specific question like this.

There is a link about the dish sizes (advised by Astra) just below his posting we have posted this link already 5 or 6 times !! If I was Acen I would go for at least 120cm and even better 150cm.

But thanks for pointing out.

[El Cid]

If I was Acen I would go for at least 120cm and even better 150cm.

But he already said he has a 1.3m dish - like everyone else in the south!

Do you not read what people write?

You were suggesting that he bought a 1.8m dish - now you are suggesting he buys a smaller one than he has at present!

You need to realise that these theoretical coverage maps bear little relation to reality.

[elmolino]

If I was Acen I would go for at least 120cm and even better 150cm.

But he already said he has a 1.3m dish - like everyone else in the south!

Do you not read what people write?

You were suggesting that he bought a 1.8m dish - now you are suggesting he buys a smaller one than he has at present!

You need to realise that these theoretical coverage maps bear little relation to reality.

Hi El Cid,

It getting a bit confusing (Bilbao/Gib) but look at the link for the dish sizes, if you have a signal problem in the evening hours, get a bigger one.

"You need to realise that these theoretical coverage maps bear little relation to reality."

Yes I agree 200%, so a size bigger than advised is always better in cases you have a signal problem in the evening hours. We have seen this problem already for years, the output level of some satellite transponders drops during evening hours.

[markwilding]

Yes we know but it does not mean this is his home location, thats why I ask for it, most of the locations from users are just an indication, a lon/lat will help even more if you have a specific question like this.

I live around 8 kms from Bilbao.I hope that helps.
The question was for you....I don't want a link to another website.
I'll repeat the question
What do you suggest as the minimum dish size I would need if you were going to install one on my roof?

[El Cid]

Once again you are missing the point! (How surprising!)

The coverage maps are wrong - you need a smaller dish than the size recommended - not the other way round.

Talk to any of the Sky ladder monkeys and they will all tell you the same.

Anyway, that is my last post on the subject as I have better things to do than argue with some ill informed idiot.

The OP has had an answer to his question - no thanks to you.

Acen - I hope you have now got your Humax set up and are enjoying it. If you want any further advice please PM me and I will try and help (without any interference from the idiot spammer).

[elmolino]

The question was for you....I don't want a link to another website.
I'll repeat the question
What do you suggest as the minimum dish size I would need if you were going to install one on my roof?

Ohhhhhhhhh no ................. are you sure you use internet, anyway here is the map for you



I would go for 150cm, especialy because the weather in the North (rain). But if you have a smaller and no problems, dont change it, I dont see the need of it.

Get ONLY a bigger dish if you have problems in the evening hours with your existing one.

[elmolino]

The coverage maps are wrong - you need a smaller dish than the size recommended - not the other way round.

Hi El Cid,

We put this one on our office wall

I have forwarded it also to Astra, if I get a comment back I will post it.

[Beachcomber]

That map is years old and was originally published by Alpmaps (who are not credited, I note) before LNB noise figures were substantially reduced making it obsolete.

A more accurate map is available on the Astra2D web site with due credit to skyinmadrid.com by whom it was compiled:

http://www.astra2d.com/iberia2d.html

[elmolino]

That map is years old and was originally published by Alpmaps (who are not credited, I note) before LNB noise figures were substantially reduced making it obsolete.

A more accurate map is available on the Astra2D web site with due credit to skyinmadrid.com by whom it was compiled:

http://www.astra2d.com/iberia2d.html

Hi Beachcomber,

There are a few maps, the one we use is send to us by Astra Technical Support. In case of losing signal during evening hours* ...... if all other components are ok, you can solve this with a bigger dish.

* this was the original problem.

ps. Beside our suggestion to try to change the dish I have not seen any other one. It does not mean you have to do this, it's only an suggestion and based on our installation experience (and other sky installers). So ......... read it, don't read it, forget it, simple We (and our clients) don't have a signal problem, we don't have interference from other satellites etc. etc.

So if you post a question, you may get answers and suggestions. Use them or just ignore them.

90 replys, not bad, 88 useless and not to the point. Beside our suggestion only 1 other good one, change the lnb, it can be an old one.

[Beachcomber]

Yes... I think people would be better off taking the second option!

[elmolino]

Yes... I think people would be better off taking the second option!

thats is why I said ....... change the dish "if all other components are ok"

[Beachcomber]

That isn't the choice of options I was referring to but never mind and, as I said, your map is years out of date.

[elmolino]

That isn't the choice of options I was referring to but never mind and, as I said, your map is years out of date.

Sorry but than you have to be more clear We have received this map Dec 2009, so not really old. But the map is not the problem, the problems is bad signal during evening hours, you don't solve this with maps, they are just an indication.

End discussion.

[elmolino]

el molino - Ill will let everyone how i got on, but without dragging this on for ever, 1.3m is all we need down here.

Im not in malaga im near gib in Cadiz province and no-one has anything bigger than 1.3m unless its really old or they relocated from the costa blanca.

i take it you dont actually live down here full time, because usually you will find that installers dont actually know more that their customers, but they do have long ladders and are wiling to climb on roof's.

Hi Acen,

If you look at the different maps, you will see you need a bigger dish in South West Cadiz (Gib). Advised is at least 150cm and one step bigger is always better, so go for 180cm but check all other components first.

I understand you don't like to spend $$$ on a bigger dish, they are not cheap, but I don't think you have much choice to keep the kids happy

[Beachcomber]

End of discussion??? That map has been around since the early days of Astra 2D when LNB noise figures were far higher than they are now. It was published on a Geocities web site by Alpmaps and even Geocities hasn't been around for a while.

According to that map a 1,8m dish is required in the Málaga area and it is patently obvious to everyone that this is simply not the case. I have a 1,2 metre dish and since I bought my Humax last year and changed the LNB I only lose the signal in absolutely torrential rain.

[elmolino]

That isn't the choice of options I was referring to but never mind and, as I said, your map is years out of date.

Dish Sizes

It has to be said that determining your dish size is an inaccurate science. Since reception is influenced by the threshold of the receiver, the accuracy of the alignment, the quality of the dish, the skew setting of the LNB etc, one person's experience may be different to another's. It is advisable, within reason, to select a larger dish in preference over a smaller one, although your installer should have a good idea of the minimum required dish size.

Dish Sizes in Spain

Spain obviously encompasses an very large area and dish sizes vary according to location. At the North West of Spain, in the area of land situated directly above Portugal, a minimum size of 1.3m diameter is required to bring in the 2D signal for BBC and ITV. While we have had positive reports on a 1.3m dish, we have also had a report from Ian King in A Coruna who tried unsuccesfully to use a 1.3m dish and who eventually settled on a 2.1m dish. Even with this size dish, Ian loses ITV2 and ITV3, BBC 3 and BBC4 in bad weather. This goes to show the differences that people experience when installing a large dish on the fringes of the 2D footprint. There are many unknown factors at work here, including the LNB type and the receiver, but we feel that Ian should be able to use a smaller dish.

A customer from the Galicia region (15km from Carballo and 40km from A Coruna) purchased a 1.8m segmented dish and was able to receive all the UK Freesat channels, including BBC and ITV:

"Just to say that the dish is now installed and everything OK. Even get BBC2 in the late afternoon which is unheard of in these parts. Even works OK when raining but occassionally goes when very windy. My god that dish is massive. Looks like GCHQ. Gives the locals something to talk about!

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your service and advice. I will certainly recommend your company to any Brits that ask about our dish!"

Moving Southwards from the North-West corner of Spain to the area of Spain adjacent to the North-East tip of Portugal, reports indicate that again a 1.35m dish is the minmum required. Oscar Holguin in Valencia de Don Juan has this size of dish fitted with a Elgin free-to-air type satellie receiver. ...

Last January I contacted you regarding a question on my satellite system in Spain. (Leon-city: 324 Km North of Madrid and 180 Km from Oviedo)- Town called Valencia de Don Juan.
Well, I have got a satellite dish 1.35m and the normal LNB 3.0. The decoder is a box called Elgin. The system works fine showing (BBC-One, Two, CBeebes etc.) and ITV 1. until about 8pm. It doesn't show the ITV2 or channel Four, or Five either.
Now reading you website, you are recommending the Pace 2600C1 and the LNB-Quad-Invalon o.3dB. Do you think that if I change the digibox and the LNB the problem will be solved?

Chris Saul from Absolute Satellites on the South Coast near Almeria uses 1.3m dishes with refurbished Pace DS430N digiboxes, although as you go West approaching Malaga, the size required reduces to 1.2 or 1.1m.

Lionel Scott, based in Nerja, approximately 50 miles east of Malaga, uses a 1.2m dish with Cambridge Universal LNB and a Pace 2600C1 receiver. He has received a perfect, interrupted reception to date.

Contrary to what you might expect, if you proceed East and North towards Alicante, the signal weakens and a dish in the region of 2.0/2.4 metres is needed. Follow the coast up to France, and gradually the signal strength improves. For example, Mark Scotsford installs in the Castellon region of Eastern Spain, halfway between Valencia and Amposta. He installs 1.9m dishes for a solid reception day and night, but also installs 1.3m dishes for customers who don't mind losing the odd channel in the evening. This reduction in required dish size continues as you travel up the coast towards Barcelona. By the time you reach the area around Barcelona and the border with France, an 80cm dish would be more than adequate.

An 80cm dish is also suitable for the costal area of Northern Spain between Bilbao and the French border. Norman Lindsay confirmed that his 80cm dish and Pace DS430N is more than sufficient to guarantee a good reception on all UK channels.

The report below was sent in by Josh Lovegrove who lives near Valencia, one of the most difficult areas in which to receive a good quality signal from Astra 2D. To look at the products that Josh talks about in more detail, just click on the links.

"I am using Pace 2600 C1 and Fortec Star 2.4m sectional dish. The dish is fitted with an Invacom dual C120 LNB and Invacom C120 flange feedhorn fitted into an adjustable clamp.

Dish located on flat roof of house rag bolted to concrete floor. Setup was using a simple satellite meter to tune for max signal strength then using adjustments on dish and skew to fine tune horizontal and vertical alignments for best results using an old Amstrad receiver connected to second LNB and portable TV taken up onto the roof next to the dish and gauging results from Amstrad receiver using signal test. On Amstrad signal gives 60% on Strength and 60% on quality but signal registers on the Pace 2600 end of 30M of cable at 60% or 80% on strength and quality at least 60% and sometimes more.

In the day we can get all BBC and ITV channels plus CH4 and CH5 plus all free view channels - ITV2, ITV3, ITV4, BBC3, BBC4, Film4 etc. In the evening we lose ITV3 first at around 8pm - later we lose BBC3 and ITV2 and ITV4. Our default BBC1 is Tyne Tees which we lose at 8pm but can continue with London BBC1 until about 10:00pm and sometimes after. After midnight most BBC and ITV channels can get a bit iffy at times.

We suspect we need to relocate the dish as the bottom may be close to being in the shadow of a nearby wall and so intend raising the whole dish 2 feet sometime soon and also may try another location to see if we get a better signal form that.

I should have mentioned that before we had the Fortecstar 2.4M dish we used a Tagra 1.2M and undisclosed LNB (looks like an old Grundig but can't be sure). Anyway with that and the Pace 2600 we were able to get ITV (daytime only), + CH4 (afternoon and evenngs only) and CH5 up to 11pm at night."

In the Balearic Islands you may struggle to get all regions of BBC/ITV at all times with anything less than a 1.5 or 1.8m dish. Typically, certain BBC and ITV regions, including ITV2 and ITV3 may drop out in the evening around the 9 or 10pm. Using a 1.8m dish in conjunction with a good digibox such as the Pace DS430N, Pace Minibox or Pace 2600C1 will prevent this from happening, and will give you continuous viewing day and night. A customer on Ibiza has confirmed that a 1.8m dish, used with a standard free-to-air receiver, will not be sufficient to guarantee continuous viewing. Substituting the free-to-air receiver with a Pace 2600C1 solved this problem.

[elmolino]

There are many different problems with receiving Sky (and freesat) in Spain and Portugal and this can vary tremendously in locations only 20km apart. Loss of signal in the evening and night at this time of year is a well known phenomenon in Spain and Portugal and is believed down to atmospheric conditions usually meaning a larger dish is required.There are 5 different satellites in that orbital position - one tightly focused on the UK, one on Northern Europe and the others pan-European. Dish sizes required vary from 1 metre up to 2.4 metres (and sometimes larger) in some areas for reliable 24/7 reception.

[Conehead]

Deleted

[Devils Advocate]