Irish Passport/U.K. registered car/U.K.Driving Licence

Information and questions about driving in Andalucia, buying or importing cars and motorbikes plus legal issues surrounding taxes and licenses.
axarquian
Andalucia.com Amigo
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:48 pm
Location: Montes Negros/Rubite (the Malaga one)

Irish Passport/U.K. registered car/U.K.Driving Licence

Postby axarquian » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:52 pm

Hi, I have both a U.K. and Irish passport, and, as I live and have lived in the U.K. for most of my life I have a U.K. car and driving licence.

I am a non-resident in Spain where I own a holiday home that I plan to visit as often as I can. As many will know it is advantageous for me to use my Irish passport as it allows me to spend more time in Spain. I tend to make trips in my U.K. registered car and am wondering if anyone can foresee any problem in me using my Irish passport whilst having a U.K. registered car and driving licence.

User avatar
dxf
Resident
Posts: 510
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Chiclana Cadiz
Contact:

Re: Irish Passport/U.K. registered car/U.K.Driving Licence

Postby dxf » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:00 pm

Hola,

Yes I foresee problems as all Guardia Civil are not equally trained LOL

Davexf

User avatar
peteroldracer
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7544
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Los Alcázares, Murcia

Re: Irish Passport/U.K. registered car/U.K.Driving Licence

Postby peteroldracer » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:10 pm

Seems to me that there are 2 separate considerations: you are a UK resident, no matter what your passport says, so are restricted to 90 days in 180, and a UK registered car may only be in Spain for 90 days before it must either leave the country or be matriculated to Spanish plates.
If you get pulled over the Guardi could go either way - accept that you are using an EU member state's passport and ignore the UK-reg, or (more likely) assume you are doing something ollegal and impound you and the car"
I used to cough to disguise a [email protected] I [email protected] to disguise a cough.

markwilding
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 7354
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:02 am
Location: Bilbao Spain

Re: Irish Passport/U.K. registered car/U.K.Driving Licence

Postby markwilding » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:31 am

It's having a Irish passport that is important so he is not restricted to 90 days in 180 and can stay in Spain as long as he wants.

No IDL is needed for trips under 6 months.
https://www.gov.uk/driving-abroad/inter ... ing-permit


There's some more info here about Non EU plated cars in A.com's info pages.
https://www.andalucia.com/living/vehicl ... plates.htm

elusive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2861
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: East of Malaga

Re: Irish Passport/U.K. registered car/U.K.Driving Licence

Postby elusive » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:56 am

Yeah its your nationality that matters. Hence the rush for Irish passports since 2016.

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Irish Passport/U.K. registered car/U.K.Driving Licence

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:10 am

Echoing what the last two posts say your passport is what let's you in to the Spain and the EU and determines your right to be here, regardless of where you are resident.

As you hold an EU passport and will present that when you enter Schengen area (presumably coming off the ferry or train) there will be no record taken at the border of when you enter Spain.

I hold EU passports and hold a non EU licence and have driven in Spain with it and the accompanying IDP, whilst residing outside the EU (I also have EU licence as I am now resident) However the ability of the Spanish authorities to know you have been here over 6 months is very limited.

You simply have to leave Spain to reset the 6 month clock. Cross the border to whichever country is nearest, Gibraltar, Portugal France Andorra. Given they are all in Schengen and no check will be made it will be next to impossible for the Guardia Civil to prove you didn't go there if you say you did. However a little proof might help so use a cash machine and get a receipt in the other country.

The only difficulty arises if the Spanish authorities try to say you are resident in Spain, in which case you can't have a foreign car for more then 30 days and you will possibly be judged a tax resident. So maybe don't wave the UK plated car in the face of the Guardia Civil and try to park off road where it can't be seen.

However I am guessing from you original post that you don't intend to stay more than 6 months at a time. So as I said above EU passport is the right to be here and driving licence is a completely separate matter so just make sure you have IDP, although it is not legally required, and your UK licence.

elusive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2861
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: East of Malaga

Re: Irish Passport/U.K. registered car/U.K.Driving Licence

Postby elusive » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:46 am

Given they are all in Schengen and no check will be made it will be next to impossible for the Guardia Civil to prove you didn't go there if you say you did. However a little proof might help so use a cash machine and get a receipt in the other country.
------------
Although in spain its the other way around. Its upto you to prove your innocence! But like you say aslong as its under 6 months it doesn't matter.

Paddy Pumpkin
Resident
Posts: 895
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm
Location: Madrid

Re: Irish Passport/U.K. registered car/U.K.Driving Licence

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:33 pm

That is not correct. Spain like every EU country is innocent until proven guilty.

Article 6.2 of EU Convention on Human Rights

Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty
according to law.

I learned that syudying law in the late 90s and top of my head it's in place since 1950s. The only question is whether it would be a criminal offence to drive after 6 months. I am guessing that it is effectively the same as driving without a licence so it would be a criminal offence.

So with that in mind unless you make an admission of guilt the police in Spain have to prove you have beenn Spain continuously for 6 months. This will be next to impossible if you hold an EU passport as there will be no entry stamps and no way to prove you didn't go to Portugal etc.

I got pulled over by police in East Europe in and I was driving with an Asian licence but I didn't have IDP. The police wanted to do me for driving without a licence as it would be a very large fine and could arrest me. He told me only EU licences were valid to drive there. Tbh I had only moved to Asia and never even thought about an IDP.
While he was trying to verify what he could do me for and how to proceed I got googling and found the 1948 Vienna Traffic convention which sets out a standardised format for licences (EU licences follow this format). Luckily the country I was in had ratified this convention (Spain hadn't the last time I checked). This meant as my licence was in that format I didn't need an IDP. Hence he couldn't do me. He didn't want to lose face having kept me at the side of the road for 90 minutes so he agreed at that point to accept the scan on my phone of the UK licence I also held and said it was good enough, I had shown him this after 15 mins. In the end I got a 20 EUR fine for an illegal left turn to an area only open to buses and taxis. I had followed the taxi on front of me and never saw the sign. When I went back to Asia I got an IDP straight away!

elusive
Andalucia Guru
Posts: 2861
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 am
Location: East of Malaga

Re: Irish Passport/U.K. registered car/U.K.Driving Licence

Postby elusive » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:07 pm

That is not correct. Spain like every EU country is innocent until proven guilty..
------------

Whats supposed to happen in theory and what happens in reality are two different things. Like proving to hacienda your weren't tax resident in a certain year when they claimed your were inorder to get your money back. Its like trying to prove a negative in many cases. The onus is on you after they quite happily embargo your bank account


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 6 guests