The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

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Lavanda
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The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Lavanda » Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:36 pm

We knew this was in the pipeline and here is the 'latest'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tions.html

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:58 pm

I know it happens in many countries that once you are a citizen you have the right to vote no matter where you live but it doesn't make it right.

Take for example someone like myself. I have UK citizenship but I haven't kept my passport valid for about 20 years. I haven't lived in the UK for more than 10 years. I don't even consider myself British at all. The link to the UK for me is nothing more than a flag of convenience based on which passport I want to use. However I will have the right to influence UK laws etc.

If any politician wants to court the vote abroad he can come up with some crazy scheme like a free flight to the UK for all UK citizens abroad. Great I will vote for that, a free holiday, and I don't care if you have to raise UK income tax to pay for it because I don't pay UK income tax. I know that is an extreme example but things like this where a politician courts the emigrant vote happens in other countries. Mabe we will have UK politicians canvassing in Torremolinos or Benidorm.

So in this case UK citizens abroad could force another vote on Brexit and indeed possibly vote on the referendum. I thought the UK wanted to take back control but instead is handing it to people living outside the UK

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby elusive » Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:16 pm

Im more bothered about the fact i cant vote in the country where I actually live and file tax returns etc! Dont live in the country then i fail to see why you should have a right to vote in their elections

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Lavanda » Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:54 pm

I pay taxes in the UK and in Spain. I have family in the UK and a bank account and investments. I think the right to vote in the country in which you pay taxes is rather nice. However, for people who feel differently, it's not compulsory which is also rather nice.

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Manchesteral » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:13 pm

No doubt someone here will know better, but, as far as I'm aware if you've been absent from the U K for 10 years or more, the only thing you have a right to is your passport !

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby markwilding » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:22 pm

No that is not correct. It was 15 years but in the recent Budget, it was announced this is going to change
Lavanda wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:54 pm I pay taxes in the UK and in Spain. I have family in the UK and a bank account and investments. I think the right to vote in the country in which you pay taxes is rather nice. However, for people who feel differently, it's not compulsory which is also rather nice.
I'm with you on this one. The fact that I can chose to vote should I want to is important to me. Especially, as I'm of the opinion that another vote to do with the EU could be possible in one party's manifesto in the next elections. It is not likely to be to re-join as full members but it might be for the British people to be given the opportunity to vote on re-joining the single market or Custom union.

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:37 pm

Leaving aside my personal view on the subject on the policies of the UK that I would want to change, to me it adds to an already wrong system.

I have the right to vote in the country of my mother by virtue of holding a passport for that country even though I have never lived there. My children and grand children and any descendants who claim the passport will have that right also if they claim the passport.

I currently live in Spain and I also have residency in another non EU country. I don't have the right to vote in either country because I am not a citizen. However I am subject to the voting choices of citizens of those countries solely because they have a passport even if they don't live in that country. So the UK could end up being controlled by people who don't live there. At least they are restricting the vote in the UK to citizens who have at one point lived there.

As for the taxation theme I also don't agree with that. I paid tax in 5 countries last year, it's not fair that I should be able to vote in those countries. Also the taxation rule could lead to people who don't pay tax having no vote also.

Yes it would be nice to be able to vote in the UK but fundamentally it's not fair that people abroad permanently a say in running the country

To me the only fair way to allow voting based on residency in the country.

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Lavanda » Thu May 13, 2021 6:59 am

This was in the recent Queen's Speech:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ht-to-vote

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby elusive » Thu May 13, 2021 7:21 am

To me the only fair way to allow voting based on residency in the country.
------------------

totally agree. Its the only non discriminatory option.

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Thu May 13, 2021 8:52 am

Lavanda wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 6:59 am This was in the recent Queen's Speech:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ht-to-vote
"He (Boris) said many expats worked very hard for their country and have retired abroad and decided to finish off their days somewhere else but that they had made a contribution to their country."

Great so the retirees will never live in the UK ever again but will influence life for those still living there. So they will all vote for whoever increases the state pension even if that increase is at the expense of the NHS or higher taxes on those working. The retirees won't care as they won't pay those taxes or use the NHS ever again.

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby gerryh » Thu May 13, 2021 9:48 am

Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:52 am
Great so the retirees will never live in the UK ever again but will influence life for those still living there. So they will all vote for whoever increases the state pension even if that increase is at the expense of the NHS or higher taxes on those working. The retirees won't care as they won't pay those taxes or use the NHS ever again.
Some of us have children and grandchildren living in the UK so we are still concerned
as to what is happening in the UK.
I find your comments very insulting.
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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Wicksey » Thu May 13, 2021 11:55 am

I may live here but I still have a rental property and bank accounts there, so I have a business interest in what happens in the UK. There are expats with civil service pensions who do pay their tax in the UK if over the tax threshold, not here. As Gerry said, there are also those with families who are concerned for their wellbeing, so there are reasons why expats here may have an interest in voting in UK elections. Considering the intellect of some of the voting public in the UK, I don't see what is wrong with retirees abroad voting!

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby peteroldracer » Thu May 13, 2021 1:22 pm

It could really backfire on Boris - surely no one who lives in Sapin would support the man who drove the disastrous Brexit?
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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Lavanda » Thu May 13, 2021 1:47 pm

I am one, of many thousands, with family in the UK and I pay taxes on my public sector pensions there. What's the problem with me having a vote in the UK? I do not have one in Spain.

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Pamela1 » Thu May 13, 2021 1:54 pm

Oh but that's just it Peter, many people living in Spain did vote for it, now some live to regret it. mainly those who do did not bother to find out what the implications would mean, probably the same people who couldn't be bothered to fill out their residency applications who now complain about Spain being hostile towards them. I see it often in the Uk press. :wtf:

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Paddy Pumpkin » Thu May 13, 2021 2:17 pm

In reply to several comments above

I have 3 passports and my other half has 2. Between both of us we pay taxes in 6 countries. We will both receive state pensions from rights earned in 2 countries (so 3 countries between the two of us) We own properties in 4 countries and that will most likely increase to 6 with inheritances we will receive from our parents (I am not counting chickens though). We also have permanent residency rights in another country.

So with all of the above we have strong connections to 9 countries through either paying tax, having a passport, owning property, having residency or receiving a state pension.

Is it fair that we get the right to vote in all those countries? After all we have a vested interest in what happens in each of them.

]I don't have a Spanish passport so have no right to vote here. So am totally without a vote at present.

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby El Cid » Thu May 13, 2021 2:29 pm

Historically, the belief that "there should be no taxation without representation" was one of the main reasons for the American Revolution and War of Independence between Britain and America.

I think we all know who won!

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Lavanda » Thu May 13, 2021 2:47 pm

Quite, Sid.

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Wicksey » Thu May 13, 2021 3:06 pm

Paddy Pumpkin wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 2:17 pm In reply to several comments above

So with all of the above we have strong connections to 9 countries through either paying tax, having a passport, owning property, having residency or receiving a state pension.

Is it fair that we get the right to vote in all those countries? After all we have a vested interest in what happens in each of them.

]I don't have a Spanish passport so have no right to vote here. So am totally without a vote at present.
Yes but I am a British citizen, born and bred, and I have not given that up (nor do I have citizenship anywhere else) and like Lavanda, we have British government pensions that are controlled and taxed by the UK, not here. I cannot see what is wrong with still having a say if I feel so inclined. Many expats have paid into the UK tax system all their lives before retiring here, and some do return to the UK (most of my friends have over the years despite them saying they never would).

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Re: The right to vote in the UK after 15 years

Postby Lavanda » Thu May 13, 2021 3:55 pm

Exactly, Wicksey. Some of us are pretty boring and are British.


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